Articles and adjectives

[Interaxus]

As a beginner just checking out Sidgwick’s First Greek Writer, I was not a little surprised to learn that what I had said about Arabic in some earlier Textkit thread applied equally to Ancient Greek. I had written:

1. Different juxtapositions of DEFINITE and INDEFINITE nouns and adjectives create phrases OR sentences without using the verb ‘to be’, Newcomers take note: Arabic has no indefinite article (‘a/an’), while the definite article (‘the’) is ‘al’, which may be prefixed to noun or adjective.

kitaab kabeer (INDEF + INDEF: ‘book big’) = a big book
al-kitaab al-kabeer (DEF + DEF: ‘the-book the-big’) = the big book
al-kitaab kabeer (DEF + INDEF: ‘the-book big’) = the book (IS) big

Similarly, since a NAME is by definition DEFINITE:

Alexander al-kabeer (DEF + DEF) = Alexander the great; but …
Alexander kabeer (DEF + INDEF) = Alexander (is) great

Sidgwick writes:

There is no word in Greek for ‘a, an’.
…
In English we say ‘the bad man;’ and if we wish to translate this into Greek, the point to observe is that the adjective must have the article.
The order of Adjectives and Substatives may be inverted if we please. Thus we may say either ‘ho kakós anér’ or ‘ho anér ho kakós’; but in either case the Adjective must have the Article.
If this rule is broken, as it is often by beginners, and if we write ‘ho anér kakós’ or ‘kakós ho anér’, the phrase is still good Greek, but the meaning is quite altered; it is no longer ‘the bad man,’ but ‘the man is bad’. The Adjective, by being deprived of the Article, has ceased to be an > attribute> , and has become a > predicate> .

I’m not sure about the inversion bit but otherwise this syntactical device seems nearly identical to the one employed by Arabic. Why should this be so? Why is Latin so completely different, using no articles at all? And why (or when) did modern European langages (including modern Greek) come to rely on both indefinite and definite articles?

By the way, how DO I say ’ a big book’ in ancient Greek?:oops:

Cheers,
Int

[annis]

@Interaxus

I’m not sure about the inversion bit but otherwise this syntactical device seems nearly identical to the one employed by Arabic. Why should this be so?

Why should it not, if both languages have similar resources as their disposal?

@Interaxus

By the way, how DO I say ’ a big book’ in ancient Greek?

μέγα βιβλίον or βιβλίον μέγα. Context will solidify the status (attributive or predicate) of the adjective.

[Bert]

@Interaxus

And why (or when) did modern European langages (including modern Greek) come to rely on both indefinite and definite articles?

I don’t know when it happened and I doubt it happened at the same time for different languages. Correct me if I’m wrong but Modern Greek uses the unaccented εἱς (one) as indefinite article. Dutch does the exact same thing. It likely was a slow process.

@Interaxus

By the way, how DO I say ’ a big book’ in ancient Greek?:oops:

I would think it is; βίβλος μεγάλη (or μεγάλη βίβλος). Without context this could mean “a book is big” as well.

[megas_yiannakis]

Modern Greek uses είς thats correct, sept the nominitive form είς has become ένας.

so…

ο καλός άνδ?ας → the nice man.

ένας καλός άνδ?ας → a nice man -or- one nice man.

το καλό βιβλίο → the good book.

ένα καλό βιβλίο → a good book -or- one good book.

η καλή γυναίκα → the nice woman.

μία καλή γυναίκα → a nice woman -or- one nice woman.

Also interesting to note how modern greek also sometimes omits the act of being:

καλός ο και?ός → the weather (is) good. (lit. good the weather)

βα??ς ο καφές → the coffee (is) heavy. (lit. heavy the coffee)

John.

[Interaxus]

Thanks for insightful comments and info!

The Verb To Be seems to have performed its Vanishing Act in many languages at various points along time’s curve.

As for the tricks the Definite Article seems fond of getting up to, well, I live among people who tack it onto the END of their nouns, so I shouldn’t be easily fazed, should I?

How beautifully simple Modern Greek is (interesting examples of Definite-Indefinite chemistry, by the way). Maybe in another life … Right now, the lure of Homer & Co. is too great. However, I do have a follow-up ‘straying-from-the-topic’ question: Some time ago I came across some beautifully illustrated Greek children’s books re-telling tales of ancient heroes like Perseus, Hercules, Jason, etc. My local Greek barman tells me the stories are written in a kind of formal Greek (Katharevousa?). Are children still exposed to this or are my books mere relics of a forgotten era?

Now I must work out how you people manage to produce Greek letters in Textkit scribblies.

Cheers,
Int

[Turendil]

Now I must work out how you people manage to produce Greek letters in Textkit scribblies

http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/greek-fonts.asp

Also Instructions may be found here

http://discourse.textkit.com/t/using-greek-characters-quick-note-for-windows-users/5195/1