Many thanks for all the replies, I especially enjoyed this one by mwh:
The OP suggested that (τῇ) ψυχῇ might be “a verb from ψύχω”, and said the sentence “would make more sense to me that way.” It is true that “meaning is created in the act of reception—indeed, the OP’s uniquely bizarre reception of Plato’s sentence well illustrates the principle! Against that Plato is powerless to say “That is not what I meant at all you fool!” But we are not.
The reason I asked such a stuipd question is that I don’t really read Ancient Greek, i rely on English translations, but they are often poor and conflicting, and in this case I was hoping someone might be able to suggest an alternative translation, so I threw something out there, because this whole third man is a nightmare in a few cryptic sentances (do not take the Vlastos explanation seriously). Anyhow if you are all right there is no getting away from the “looking at them with your soul” type idea even though I had really hoped there would be.
Perhaps you think it is silly to ask people to suggest creative new translations? But look Plato plays with words in subtle ways that give lots of scope for translation discussion. Indeed it makes Plato a nightmare even for experts to read, which is why people like me give up on learning Ancient Greek and rely on others, thinking it a waste of time to even begin.
Here is an example of Plato’s bizzare word-craft you might enjoy from my own writing:
…But what precisely does Plato mean by “advantageous” in the passage above?
The word is συμφέρω, and Plato also uses it in a much discussed passage of the Clitophon at 409c.
But first, why is the Clitophon 409c passage much discussed? Because the Clitophon would be a terrible indictment of Plato’s writing were it not some sort of joke. Clearly what Plato must be doing in the Clitophon is showing that Socrates did give some sort of instruction, but it somehow went over Clitophon’s head. Since the dialogue is extremely short, there are only a few sentences in which Plato could be demonstrating the sorts of things Socrates taught, and this is one of them. Thus this short passage must be extremely instructive.
So now let’s take a look:
[Overview of the Clitophon dialogue]
Socrates makes such marvellous speeches in praise of virtue. But is he only capable of persuading people to pursue virtue, or is he capable of teaching it too? After persuading a person to pursue virtue, you must next teach them about it, or they will suffer extreme pain and gradually go wild. My problem is that I was persuaded by him, but then I never got from him what comes next. That is why I say if Socrates can’t teach what comes next, or won’t teach it, then I will have to go to Thrasymachus and to anyone else I can, even if these sophists are the very people he attacks! Now I will tell you now why I gave up on him:
[Prelude to the passage]
I asked the followers of Socrates what is this art that makes us more virtuous? One replied this art is precisely that which you hear Socrates describing—nothing else than justice. I said do not just give me the name, tell me like this: the art of house building builds houses, likewise what is the operation which the just man is capable of performing for us?
[The 409c passage]
From Perseus: ἡμῖν ἔργον ὁ δίκαιος, τί τοῦτό φαμεν; εἰπέ.’ οὗτος μέν, ὡς οἶμαι, τὸ συμφέρον ἀπεκρίνατο, ἄλλος δὲ τὸ δέον, ἕτερος δὲ τὸ ὠφέλιμον, ὁ δὲ τὸ λυσιτελοῦν.
The reply of your exponent was, I think, “the advantageous”; while another said “the beneficial”; a third “the useful”; and yet another “the appropriate”.
Now here are the critical concepts:
Greek Word, Above Translation, Dictionary descriptions
1 συμφέρον - the advantageous
bring together, gather, collect; confer a benefit, be useful or profitable
2 δέον - the beneficial
that which is binding, needful, right
3 ὠφέλιμος - the useful
helping, aiding, useful, serviceable, beneficial
4 λυσιτελέω - the appropriate
indemnify for expenses incurred, or pay what is due; gainful, profitable
In summary: Clitophon asked the followers of Socrates to describe the good the art of virtue produces, and they answered in four different ways that seem to the uninitiated to all mean the basically the same thing.
Comment: Four Causes
So scholars ask themselves the question: why does Plato use four very similar appearing words to describe the “good” of the art of virtue?
Shakespeare, for example, uses a variety of words for the sake of rhyme. But Plato is not rhyming here. What then do you think he is doing?
In the Physics Aristotle talks about the four causes, the formal, material, efficient, and final, and it seems clear to me that the four above follow the same pattern (and Aristole’s four causes were taken from Plato’s Academy and are central to Plato’s doctrine as well).
The advantageous and beneficial are somehow more advanced than the useful and appropriate, and the useful like the advantageous are somehow more intrinsic and the beneficial and appropriate more extrinsic…
