I just joined, and thought I would say hello. I have loved and read (in translation) the classics for a long time - Ancient Greek philosophy, epic poetry, and history, and Latin poetry and history. Several years ago I grew tired of reading in translation, or more particularly, reading translations of varying quality and aesthetic principles rather than engaging the thing itself. So, having a little more time, I focused on Ancient Greek. I have failed with so many books, yet some learning seems to be happening. I began with Hansen & Quinn, and stopped when I blizzard of new verb forms overwhelmed me. Then I tried JACT, and made it part way through, but probably wasn’t doing the exercises enough, so I stalled. Along the way I tried Italian Athenaze, which I liked, but I missed the grammar study, when back to Hansen & Quinn, then tried Keller & Russell (loved the grammar, but the workbook almost killed me), tried Thrasymachus (which seems to be written beautifully), then finally settled back on Mastronarde. It seems quite lucid, comprehensive, and compact. I am very happy with it, and progressing nicely… I have finally learned, I hope, the rigour required. The books matter. but personal rigour, it seems, matters more.
I would give a shorter summary for Latin, but I will spare everyone… I have done less time with Latin, and am thus at an earlier stage. But I do love it. I love both languages, for different reasons.
I worked as a trial lawyer for a long time, learned French, and am learning Italian, so I have some experience with languages. I often asked questions when I felt stuck on this or that point, and discovered that this forum had good or very good answers. I truly love studying, and I look forward to learning more here.
Similar background to yours—-retired lawyer, learning Latin & Greek.
Question for you about textbooks: Last academic year (2024-25)—In the first half my class learned the basics using Molin & Williamson and in the second half read, very slowly and haltingly, the Euthyphro and the Crito. This year I want to get much more rigorous about morphology, vocabulary, and syntax on my own and then work with my Latin tutor (much more advanced in that language) on unadapted Greek prose. Given that you’ve used both as a self-learner, which of Mastronarde or Keller & Russell would you suggest? (I have both in addition to Hansen & Quinn and Molin & Williamson.) Thanks.
Hi, I am happy to give my admittedly subjective opinion. Both books are very rigorous for sure. Both have answer keys, as you know, and the K & R book has a massive Workbook. In my experience, Mastronarde is more agreeable to use. He does not try to teach too many tenses and forms at one time. There is a pedagogy that makes sense. You learn only so much in each Chapter, but it is rigorous. K & R has amazing grammatical explanations, super lucid ones, and many more exercises. But I find K & R tries to teach all the subtlety at the same time, so there in as overwhelming amount of grammar to internalize at each step. The climb is very steep, and I have learned a foreign language already. There is an austere beauty to K & R, but for me Mastronarde was better. You might like the steep slope. In fact, I am now using Greek to GCSE, by Taylor, 2 volumes, plus a final volume “Beyond” GCSE. I find Taylor amazing, and am using that. Hope this helps!!! Taylor has lots of reading and rigorous grammar, but in manageable chunks. Keep me updated how you are doing! Robert
Thanks so much. I now have both K&R and M. It sounds silly, but I prefer the fonts, typography in K&R, which are (unusually for AG) very legible. Also, for a quick skim, it seems that there’s a bit more handholding in K&R, which I need. Reaction?
I think you are right. M is concise, but sometimes too much so. You really get the solid and subtle take on the grammar with k&R, and the exercises hit each point as you go. I also like the font…. maybe I will go back to k & R next. It really has an elevated vision of the task. Let me know how it goes. And if you tire of it, look into Taylor.
I think what I might do is use Mastronarde and the JACT book (Reading Greek) simultaneously. Apparently that’s very effective simce the grammar-based and reading approaches used by the two books (respectively) re-inforce each other.
Not a bad idea. I worked my way halfway through JACT then tired of it. I loved it in the beginning, and many praise it as the best way to learn. I found that there were not enough exercises for the grammar. All the reading is fun and excellent in the beginning. My only thought is that JACT had its own grammar component, so with M at the same time you will by leaning two different approaches to grammar at the same time. Maybe it will work if you in enough time. My counsel would be to be sure to do all the JACT exercises, more than once if need be, and make sure you have the student Guide book. Reading the Greek is fun early on, but I did not work hard enough on the exercises early on, and then you stall.
I am nearly finished “Greek to GCSE” Volume 1, and starting Volume 2 soon. Robert
I find it the best thing I have found to learn, for me. It is designed fir 14-15 year olds, but that doesn’t bother me. It was designed in response to criticisms of JACT. The book combines rigorous grammar in focused doses with lots of exercises integrated into the chapter, and lots of reading.
Also, the grammar uses a minimum of technical vocabulary. We need to know the patterns, not the terminology.
I find the font ok, not ideal, but not bad. It is a little small for the readings, but not bad. You can check it out yourself by getting a sample for the digital version. I got that first, as I was abroad, and had no access to a physical copy. You can change the font with digital to whatever you want.
I prefer paper, so I switched to that. Having the answers is absolutely critical. You can email the publisher, explain that you are an independent learner, and they will give you the answer key. I have them for both volumes.
Thank you, Robert. The textbook from which I learned such Greek as I know was designed for college freshmen at the school in which I am now a (late in life) graduate student. So the intended readership doesn’t bother me one bit. I will get the first book and, if I don’t use it, will add it to my growing collection of unused textbooks.
I received the answer keys from both Bloomsbury and John Taylor. I think these volumes (together with Beyond GCSE) are the best ones for someone in my particular position that I’ve seen—now that I’ve also acquired Mastronarde, Keller & Russell, Hansen & Quinn, & JACT. For me it also helps that I have the digital version so that I don’t have to lug it around and can adjust the font size. I don’t know if someone has already posted a vocab flashcard deck on anki, quizlet, etc., but, if not, it would be good practice to make my own. My aim is to complete all three books by Christmas. I’ll let you know my progress—and please keep me informed about yours! Thanks for letting me know about this series—they’re not as well known in the US as the ones mentioned above. I plan to start today or tomorrow.
I agree with all you have written here. These GCSE books are terrific, particularly for those in our position, and are not well known on all the online places one sees such things discussed.
I am now almost done Volume 1, and that is despite being on a road trip. It is a pleasure to work through. I expect to be on “Beyond GCSE” before xmas.