Zuntz: Lesson 6

[etcetera]

Χαίρετε!

It’s time for the next set of exercises. Hopefully this time with a little less rot.
Thank you for your comments.

4. English to Greek translation

a) Sag nicht Weniges in Vielem, sondern Vieles in Wenigem!
Do not say little in many words, but much in a few!
Μὴ πολλοῖς ὀλίγα λέγε, ἀλλ’ ὀλίγοις πολλά.

b) Toren sagen Törichtes.
Fools say foolish things.
Μῶροι μῶρα λέγουσιν.

c) Die Menschen sind vernunftbegabte Lebewesen.
Humans are rational animals.
Οἱ ἄνθρωποι ζῷα λογικά εἰσιν.

d) Durch Morde werdet ihr Morde nicht aus der Welt schaffen (lösen).
You will not purge murder through murder.
Φόνοις φόνους οὐ λύσετε.

e) Wir werden dich hindern, Schlechtes zu tun.
We will keep you from doing bad things.
Κωλύσομέν σε κακὰ πράττειν.

f) Wir hinderten dich nicht, das Rechte (Schöne) zu tun.
We didn’t keep you from doing right.
Οὐκ ἐκωλύσομέν σε τὰ καλὰ πράττειν.

g) Wir sind nicht Sklaven der Barbaren.
We are not slaves of the barbarians.
Οὐ δουλεῦομεν τοῖς βαρβάροις.

h) Der gerechte Mann handelt gerecht (das Gerechte: Neutr. Pl.).
The just man acts justly.
Ὁ χρηστὸς ἄνθρωπος χρηστὰ πράττει.

i) Ich hörte das Beste (Neutr. Pl.)
I heard the best.
Ἤκουον τὰ ἄριστα.

k) Wir erwarteten alles (Neutr. Pl.)
We were expecting everything.
Ἠλπίζομεν πάντα.

5. Greek to English translation

A5 Οὐ χρὴ ἀκούειν τὰ μῶρα.
Man soll sich keine Dummheiten anhören.
One shouldn’t listen to foolish things.

B2 Χρὴ μανθάνειν τε καὶ διδάσκειν τὰ ἄριστα.
Man muss das Beste lernen und lehren.
One has to learn and teach what is best.

C3 Ἄλλα δ’ ἄλλοις καλά.
Für manche ist das eine schön, für andere das andere.
For some one thing is beautiful, for others another.

E1 Ἔγωγε τὰ ἄριστα ἐδίδασκόν σε.
Ich lehrte dich das Beste.
I was teaching you the best.

G1 Χρὴ ἐλπίζειν τὰ ἄριστα.
Man muss das Beste erhoffen.
One has to hope for the best.

I2 Ἆρ’ οὐκ οἰκτίρεις με; καὶ γὰρ ὁ τύραννος ὤικτιρε τὸν υἱόν.
Bedauerst du mich denn nicht? Denn auch der Herrscher bedauerte seinen Sohn.
Don’t you pity me? The ruler also pitied his son.

K Σοφοκλέους
Λέγειν σύ δεινός, μανθάνειν δ’ ἐγὼ κακός.
Sophokles:
Du bist ein gewaltiger Redner, ich jedoch ein miserabler Schüler.
You are great at speaking, but I am bad at learning.

L Πλάτωνος
Τὰ δίκαια καὶ καλὰ ἀγαθά ἐστι, τὰ δ’ ἄδικα καὶ αἰσχρὰ κακά.
Platon:
Das Gerechte und Schöne ist gut, das Ungerechte und Hässliche hingegen schlecht.
What is just and beautiful is good; what is unjust and ugly, however, is bad.

[mwh]

Is the Greek Zuntz’s? Is the German, the English? What are we supposed to do with these?

Anyhow, I see here we have (4c) Οἱ ἄνθρωποι ζῷα λογικά εἰσιν, effectively correcting the abominable Οἱ ἄνθρωποι ζῷα πολιτικά ἐστιν that opened the previous set.

4f typo for -σαμεν?
4g bad accent.
And in the first one, 4a, Μὴ πολλοῖς ὀλίγα λέγε, ἀλλ’ ὀλίγοις πολλά would mean “Don’t say just a few things to many (people), but many things to just a few."

I’ll leave the rest to others.

[jeidsath]

I2 Ἆρ’ οὐκ οἰκτίρεις με; καὶ γὰρ ὁ τύραννος ὤικτιρε τὸν υἱόν.
Bedauerst du mich denn nicht? Denn auch der Herrscher bedauerte seinen Sohn.
Don’t you pity me? The ruler also pitied his son.

I would have thought: “For even the tyrant was wont to pity his son.” EDIT: I think that’s a general tyrant, not particular, but I don’t really know how that’s put into English.

[Aetos]

I2 Ἆρ’ οὐκ οἰκτίρεις με; καὶ γὰρ ὁ τύραννος ὤικτιρε τὸν υἱόν.
Bedauerst du mich denn nicht? Denn auch der Herrscher bedauerte seinen Sohn.
Don’t you pity me? The ruler also pitied his son.

“Denn auch der Herrscher” might be a bit literal for “καὶ γὰρ ὁ τύραννος”. Perhaps “sogar (oder selbst) der Herrscher” would express better the notion that “if a tyrant can pity his son, why can’t you pity me”?. Speaking of tyrants pitying their sons, this reminds me of Herodotus’ story about Periander, one of the seven sages, pitying his son Lycophron, who had come to hate him for the death of his mother at Periander’s hands. If you want to read more, it’s in Book 3 of the Histories, chapters 48-53:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0125%3Abook%3D3%3Achapter%3D48%3Asection%3D1

[etcetera]

Thanks for all the comments.

Is the Greek Zuntz’s? Is the German, the English? What are we supposed to do with these?

The first line in every triple is Zuntz. The English is only there because I can’t expect everyone to read German. I don’t want to leave out the original German though in case I butcher the meaning in the English translation…

4f typo for -σαμεν?
4g bad accent.

It’s a typo for ἐκωλύομεν. Shouldn’t have happend in any way, though.

And in the first one, 4a, Μὴ πολλοῖς ὀλίγα λέγε, ἀλλ’ ὀλίγοις πολλά would mean “Don’t say just a few things to many (people), but many things to just a few."

Thanks for pointing that out. Somehow the ἐν slipped through the cracks.

I think that’s a general tyrant, not particular, but I don’t really know how that’s put into English.

Of course, you will have thought of this yourself, but the only way I (at least) see is sacrificing the singular: For even tyrants have been known to pity their sons. Not sure how a native speaker of English feels about rendering the Greek imperfect here as a present perfect.

“Denn auch der Herrscher” might be a bit literal for “καὶ γὰρ ὁ τύραννος”. Perhaps “sogar (oder selbst) der Herrscher” would express better the notion that “if a tyrant can pity his son, why can’t you pity me”?.

Thank you. You (and Joel) are absolutely right, it’s much better like this. I do have trouble sometimes with all those sentences taken out of context.

Speaking of tyrants pitying their sons, this reminds me of Herodotus’ story about Periander, one of the seven sages, pitying his son Lycophron, who had come to hate him for the death of his mother at Periander’s hands. If you want to read more, it’s in Book 3 of the Histories, chapters 48-53:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0125%3Abook%3D3%3Achapter%3D48%3Asection%3D1

Thanks for the tip. Herodotus will have to wait for a bit longer, though. There’s still some way to go

[mwh]

Thanks for explaining, etcetera. So I take it that the three lines are (1) Zuntz’s German, (2) your English translation of the German, (3) Zuntz’s Greek, with some typos by you.

One niggling query: in the previous exercise did Zuntz really write Οἱ ἄνθρωποι ζῷα πολιτικά ἐστιν instead of εἰσιν? It was a bad slip if so.

As to 4f, if ἐκωλύσομέν should be ἐκωλύομέν as you indicate, it might be better translated “We weren’t keeping you from doing right” than “We didn’t keep you from doing right,” so as to distinguish the imperfect from the aorist. (Or in jeidsathian English “We were not wont to …”.) And that corresponds more closely with the German too. Similarly with 4i and perhaps others.
These are instances where the original German/Greek is more instructive than the English intermediary. For a German-speaker these are very useful exercises. I really don’t think they’re so useful via English, however. (That sentence about pitying is another example.) One more reason for people to learn German!

[etcetera]

Thanks for explaining, etcetera. So I take it that the three lines are (1) Zuntz’s German, (2) your English translation of the German, (3) Zuntz’s Greek, with some typos by you.

Zuntz has the student do (among others) two types of exercises. One, which I denoted by its original number in the book (4.), is a translation exercise where the student is asked to translate German sentences to Greek. Those are usually very similar to the original sentences given in the lesson text. So, there you have (1) Zuntz’s German (2) my English translation of the German, (3) my Greek translation which is informed by what I read some days before in the lesson. I now noticed that sometimes he doesn’t change the sentences at all. So those I won’t have to post in the future.

The second exercise denoted by 5. above has the student translate a selection of the Greek sentences given in the lesson to German (I’m adding an English translation as well in the interest of communication since I can’t expect everyone here to speak German. I’m aware that it’s less than ideal that I’m translating into a language which is not my native language and thus adding lots of potential pitfalls.)

One niggling query: in the previous exercise did Zuntz really write Οἱ ἄνθρωποι ζῷα πολιτικά ἐστιν instead of εἰσιν? It was a bad slip if so.

That was just me getting my German to Greek translation exercise wrong. He has the correct version, of course.

As to 4f, if ἐκωλύσομέν should be ἐκωλύομέν as you indicate, it might be better translated “We weren’t keeping you from doing right” than “We didn’t keep you from doing right,” so as to distinguish the imperfect from the aorist. (Or in jeidsathian English “We were not wont to …”.) And that corresponds more closely with the German too. Similarly with 4i and perhaps others.
These are instances where the original German/Greek is more instructive than the English intermediary. For a German-speaker these are very useful exercises. I really don’t think they’re so useful via English, however. (That sentence about pitying is another example.) One more reason for people to learn German!

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here except for “And that corresponds more closely with the German too.” The German sentence in itself doesn’t indicate if it is to be understood as We weren’t keeping you from doing right or We didn’t keep you from doing right. That’s why we often have so much trouble with your continuous tenses.

[mwh]

Thanks again. So that εστιν for εισιν was actually your mistake all along. That’s reassuring.

I don’t have the Zuntz textbook you refer to.