Word order question.

Latin Learning Latin
1

I was curious as to the opinion of more experience Latinists. I sometimes strugle with word order in Latin, specifically when translating English to Latin. I know that the word order doesn’t mean much except when something needs to be emphasized. I was thinking of ignoring (for now) the correct word order and composing my Latin sentences with the English word order.

Good idea or bad idea? What do you think?

Rhuiden

2

Salue! I don’t recommend using English word order, for a number of reasons, though listing all the specifics would take a little time (the general order of pronouns with ‘non’ and a verb is something quite alien to our language). However flexible Latin word order may be, there are many very essential conventions in prose, and poetry (where the rules are broken or bent more frequently), that ought to be maintained. Simply, using consistent English word order in Latin translations won’t “feel right.”

Word order is indeed the most difficult part about the Classical languages to grasp inasmuch as they differ from our modern descendents. Other than years of tedious study, I think the best way to truly learn Latin starts here:

Latin by the Dowling Method

William C. Dowling in this booklet describes the optimum means of acquiring Latin, which I strongly advocate: simply, one starts by memorizing all the nominal and verbal permutations of Latin grammar, and then proceeds to reading this incredibly wonderful book:

Lingua Latina

I am over halfway through the first volume now, and it is astounding. My grasp of Latin grammar — and most importantly, of Latin syntax — is better than I had ever imagined it could be, to say nothing of my vocabulary and diction. It is so good. I will happily answer any questions you or anyone else might have on it.

As for your translations into Latin, for the moment, I would recommend leaving the verbs at the end (in “Yoda-talk,” if you will), having the principle subject of the sentence (whether nominative or not) come first, and making sure that ‘non’ is always quite close to the phrase’s verb, if not immediately before it.

3

I agree with Lucus in that I do not like the idea of writing Latin in English word order. I think it is always best to learn things like word order and pronunciation as you go, because they are not difficult (in my opinion) and require a long time to master. You can practice word order while you learn your grammar, so it isn’t as though you are taking focus off of more important things. To me, neglecting word order would be nearly tantamount to learning Greek without ever learning the Greek alphabet, by having someone else approximately transcribe it into Latin characters.

4

According to my grammar book the general rules are these .

  1. The subject stands first .
  2. Any finite verb stands at the end of its own clause or sentence .The main verb comes at the end of the whole sentence .
  3. The object is placed between the subject and predicate . Any indirect object stands before the main object .
  4. If a clause is introduced by a relative ,a subordinative conjunction or other linking word , this word stands at the beginning of its own clause , the verb to which it relates stands at the end of that clause and any word in between is part of that clause .
  5. An attribute , ie adjective or adjectival phrase or noun in apposition FOLLOWS the noun to which it refers .
  6. An adverb or adverbial phrase immediately PRECEDES the word which it modifies.
    7)A preposition precedes the word it relates to though an attribute (adjective or phrase )may lie between .

I found rule 4 very useful in reading complex latin sentences since often the first thing you have to do is to sort out what words belongs to what clause .

5

Nice list, Philip. There’s a relatively common exception to #7. You may, exempli gratia, say: magno cum studio linguam latinam disco - ‘I am learning the Latin language with great interest’. Literally: great with interest. Here studio magno ‘sandwiches’ the preposition :slight_smile: