Merry Christmas!
Is it incredibly foolish to consider working thru both Wheelock and Mastronarde in the course of one year (2021)? ![]()
Thanks in advance…
Merry Christmas!
Is it incredibly foolish to consider working thru both Wheelock and Mastronarde in the course of one year (2021)? ![]()
Thanks in advance…
It depends on your commitment and what else you have to do in life. it really is a personal question which only you can answer…however…
I am not sure it is sensible to work through Mastronarde in one year on your own. It is after all a class text book and a teacher would supplement it with exercises and more explanation. (there is a web site but I am not sure it is enough.) Have you thought of Athenaze? The Italian version has a lot of Greek to read and the Italian explanations are not difficult to follow. Alternatively JACT reading Greek might be a good idea. M. is an excellent textbook but it lacks enough exercises and Greek to read
I dont really know Wheelock all that well. Have you thought of La Familia Romana?You dont have to buy into the direct method and the emphasis that some of its proponents put on latin conversation. It still looks like a useful book for a beginner. There are also helpful YouTube videos (for Athenaze too).
There have been lots of discussions about these books on the forum - they may or may not illumine.
If you are a complete beginner unless you have unlimited time and enormous energy I would just tackle one, preferably latin, for say six months and see how far you get. All being well you might feel like starting Greek. In schools traditionally latin was taught first for a couple of years and then greek was taken. Is tradition a good idea? who knows? If you dont have a strong grasp of Grammatical concepts it may make sense to develop these in one ancient language and it will stand you in good stead when you start the other. There are those of us that owe our understanding of English grammar to being taught latin when we were at school.
Dont neglect to read some introductory books on Greek and Roman culture, history and literature.
Barry teaches in a school so he will have some advice. MWH may also weigh in with his great expertise.
Seneca,
Thank you very much for the detailed response with your recommendations.
I actually own all of the texts which you mentioned (other than the Italian version of Athenaze). I had started using Reading Greek and enjoyed the connected story approach, but the grammatical explanations seemed a little scattered. I was considering, for that reason, using Mastronarde as my primary grammatical source and supplementing it with Reading Greek. However, perhaps I’ll give it another shot and do the reverse (supplement my use of JACT with some explanations/paradigms from Mastronarde).
Similarly, I have, in the past, worked through the first 10ish chapters of Familia Romana. I keep getting stuck around that point. So, my thought was to work through a grammar/translation text and then follow it up with Familia Romana in order to consolidate my understanding.
I think I will probably take your advice and stagger my learning. However, I am most likely going to break with tradition and start with Greek. Belonging to the Greek Orthodox Church, I have much more practical use for Greek.
Do you, by chance, have any recommendations for books on Greek and Roman history and/or culture?
Just a couple of points.
In principle it makes much more sense to learn Greek before Latin. Latin authors were steeped in Greek literature right from the start.
Or if you want to learn both languages, you might consider a comparative approach. There’s Andrew Sihler’s New Comparative Grammar of Greek and Latin (replacing Buck). Very good and illuminating but perhaps too challenging for a beginner?
Hi, I agree with all the good suggestions above. If you give it a go and then start to break (as Mastronarde goes uphill continuously), try switching to Latin with Wheelock for a while, rather than stopping altogether. Any progress will be of value.
For your question on history and culture (a good one, as Mastronarde does not cover this), there are so many options. For Greek a great entry-level book is The world of Athens: An introduction to classical Athenian culture, 2nd edition.
But I also recommend watching/listening all the fantastic documentaries and other media resources out there—definitely try to read the books as well, but you’ll make more progress if you watch/listen to these rather than making an aspirational purchase of a book and leaving the bookmark at page 4 after an initial burst of enthusiasm.
Check out the documentaries on the classical world by e.g. Mary Beard (lots of great ones, e.g. Meet the Romans, Caligula, her Greece vs Rome debate with Boris Johnson, speeches she has given online, etc.), Michael Wood (especially In search of the Trojan war and In the footsteps of Alexander the Great; I’m going to watch the Ovid one next which I’ve discovered recently), Michael Scott (e.g. on Athens and Delphi), Bettany Hughes (lots of great ones e.g. on Helen, the Spartans, Athens, the last days of Pompeii, etc.), and others—all great as their knowledge is soaked in enthusiasm, which can be contagious; I’ve seen some of these multiple times. Many are online and easy to find.
Also subscribe to Mike Duncan’s History of Rome podcast—I’ve recommended this to dozens of people and many of them have listened to all 200 or so episodes, without previously having been that interested in the classical world. I also really like the videos and other media that comes on the Cambridge Latin Course DVDs, which you can order direct from Cambridge. A description is here: https://www.clc.cambridgescp.com/e-learning
Cheers, Chad
Chad has given some excellent advice and points to great resources. I take his point about aspirational purchases. My bookshelves are full of them! But its good to have a personal library you can refer to.
I wasn’t thinking of any particularly academic books. You should read what you think might interest you. Mary Beard has written books on Pompeii, The Roman Triumph, Laughter, SPQR, The Parthenon - all of which contain material which runs wider than the titles might suggest. Oliver Taplin is the editor of a collection of essays “Literature in the Greek World” which is interesting and helpful. There are endless numbers of “companions” which are more or less useful. Obviously if you have a good local library that may make life easier.
Thank you all very much for the much needed and appreciated advice.
I will look into some of those documentaries and books. I am actually already reading Mary Beard’s “SPQR”. I’m only a couple of chapters in, but it’s been a great read thus far. I was also listening to the History of Rome podcast during my commute to work, but since getting laid off due to covid, I have lapsed… I need to start listening again!
I think, in light of all of your input, my plan for 2021 will be to:
1.) Work thru JACT’s “Reading Greek” as my primary text, while using Mastronarde to reinforce grammatical concepts.
2.) Work thru Wheelock at a more leisurely pace. Greek will be my priority, so I will work on Latin when/if I have time.
3.) Be learning more about classical history and culture thru books, documentaries, and podcasts.
I’m excited to see what kind of progress can be made in a year. My hope is that, after a year of consistent study, I will be able to work thru a Steadman reader (perhaps Plato’s Symposium?) and read the Greek NT and Septuagint.
Thanks again for your input; this forum is amazing.