Not in the LXX perhaps. But in Thucydides there seems to be a pattern. A narrative point of departure may begin with μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα occasionally μετὰ ταῦτα δὲ (ignore number ταῦτα/τοῦτο) and καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα does at times fill the same slot but it occasionally shows up embedded within a major narrative unit. I am not claiming that μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα marks a new major narrative unit since it is found at several levels of the narrative structure.
One of the problems is understanding narrative structure of Thucydides, that is no small assignment. You cannot assume that it is just a flat linear sequence of events narrated one after another. So to understand how structuring elements work you need to have mastered the structure of the narrative. This itself is a feed back loop. Your discourse analysis method impacts the data which is basis of your method.
I am using the books chapters and sections as a guide. I understand this isn’t a perfect method. μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα is found more often at beginning of a chapter than καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα. However, there are enough examples of καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα filling this slot to undermine the whole project. In other words it doesn’t really look like there is a strong preference for one form over the other at major transitions in the narrative. I suspect that R. Buth would say I am barking up the wrong tree.
The contrast between δὲ and καὶ is summed up by Buth:
a system where one has a simple switch to mark (δε) “+change, +connection” and another (και) that just marks “+connection”…
This is a different question than the one I am looking at, μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα vs. καὶ μετὰ ταῦτα as points of departure at major transitions in narrative discourse. However Buth’s (δε) “+change, +connection” in an indirect fashion supports the notion that μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα would be preferred at transitions.
No, why would they be synonyms? μετὰ τοῦτο “after this thing”, refers to one event – the last event mentioned before. μετὰ ταῦτα “after these things”, refers to a number of preceding events. In English, you don’t say “after this thing” and “after these things”, unless you’re producing a very heavy translationese – you say “after this”, so the distinction is lost. Still, they don’t mean the same. The dual and the plural in Attic are usually translated the same into English, but it doesn’t mean they are interchangeable in the Greek.
I’ll quote again an example I gave above, from Xenophon’s Anabasis. While I don’t think there’s really much of a difference between the two forms, I think in this case μετὰ τοῦτο is more dramatic than μετὰ ταῦτα would be. That’s lost in the translation. μετὰ ταῦτα would mean “after all this, the troops went into camp…”, the nuance being that the troops going into camp is the final result of a long series of deliberations; on the other hand, μετὰ τοῦτο makes the next event the direct and immediate consequence of the previous event, which is Xenophon speaking to Seuthes. Note also that he had spoken to Seuthes εὐθὺς, immediately.
Anabasis 7.3.14-15.
[14] ἐπὶ τούτοις εἶπεν ὁ Ξενοφῶν: εἴ τις ἀντιλέγει, λεγέτω: εἰ δὲ μή, ἐπιψηφιῶ ταῦτα. ἐπεὶ δὲ οὐδεὶς ἀντέλεγεν, ἐπεψήφισε, καὶ ἔδοξε ταῦτα. εὐθὺς δὲ Σεύθῃ εἶπεν, ὅτι συστρατεύσοιντο αὐτῷ. [15] > μετὰ τοῦτο > οἱ μὲν ἄλλοι κατὰ τάξεις ἐσκήνησαν, στρατηγοὺς δὲ καὶ λοχαγοὺς ἐπὶ δεῖπνον Σεύθης ἐκάλεσε, πλησίον κώμην ἔχων.
Translation from Perseus:
[14] After that Xenophon said: “If any one holds a contrary opinion, let him speak; if not, I will put this question to vote.” And as no one spoke in opposition, he put the matter to vote, and this plan was decided upon. So he told Seuthes at once that they would take service with him. [15] > After this > the troops went into camp by divisions, but the generals and captains were invited to dinner by Seuthes in a village he was occupying near by.
Paul: what kind of a pattern do you detect in the Anabasis with μετὰ τοῦτο versus μετὰ τοῦτον.
Bill and John W. What are you thoughts on any patterns in Thucydides?
3 Are there some other texts we should look at with a good mix of the two (or three?)
Dwayne: What about διὰ ταῦτα versus διὰ τοῦτο in the Greek NT?
Bill and John W. What are you thoughts on any patterns in Thucydides?
Markos, this isn’t something I focused on when I read through Thucydides. One of the many interesting things about Th., however, is that the texture is not at all homogeneous throughout. Books 2-4 form a unit, with many different events marked by summers and winters (as he tells us he is going to do). Certain events are brought to prominence by an extended narration, while others are told briefly. Books 6-7 are more or less continuous narratives of the events in Sicily. Book 5 is somewhat disjointed with various treaties and draft treaties inserted into the text and the Melian dialogue at the end, which is a dramatic back-and-forth, Book 8 is again a narrative of many different events, with no speeches, but very different from Books 2-4, more akin to Xenophon’s Greek History (of which I’ve only read a little). It ends mid-sentence. I’m afraid this doesn’t give a very good picture of the whole.
I think this is a very nice example. μετὰ τοῦτο refers to ἐπειδὰν δὲ τὸ φυτευθὲν βιῷ, one event, and certainly not the preparations before that.
Translation from Perseus:
In regard to the plants, as you know, we who cultivate the earth find it the easiest part of our work to make all our preparations that are needed before planting, and to do the planting itself; but when the plant begins to grow, thenceforward we have a great deal of difficult and vexatious business in tending the new growth.