two more translation questions

Bert · June 7, 2003, 1:25am

JWW First Greek Book paragraph 103 line 6 reads oi( stratiwtai e)n fulake e(cousi tous persaj
Does [font SPIonic] en fulakh[/font] here mean -on guard-?
If that is the case, will the following translation be correct?
-The soldiers (who are) on guard will have (get?) the Persians-.
2. Line 10 of the same paragraph reads o( de strathgoj triakosiouj o(plitaj kai peltastaj e)xei.
Does this mean that the general has both 300 hoplites and 300 targeteers, or the the total of the two are 300, or he has 300 hoplites and he also has targeteers.
Thank you in advance.

P.S. I do believe I have SPIonic installed correctly now.

chiron2b · June 7, 2003, 4:02am

Skylax · June 7, 2003, 12:31pm

oi( stratiw=tai e)n fulakh=| e(/cousi tou\s Pe/rsaj
-The soldiers (who are) on guard will have (get?) the Persians-.

e)/xein e)n fulakh=| means rather “to hold in detention”

So it must be :“The soldiers will hold the Persians prisoners”.

Regards,
Fernand

annis · June 7, 2003, 1:05pm

[quote author=chiron2b link=board=2;threadid=151;start=0#722 date=1054958565]
[size=18=12] ‐‐‐ι ωουλδ συγγεστ τηις τρανσλατιον· [color=Green]τηε σολδιερς, ιν α γαρρισον, ωιλλ ηολδ τηε περσιανς[/color]( φυλακή = γυαρδ, γαρρισον (α πλαξέλοξατιον); Jωω τελλς ψου λατερ τηατ γυαρδ/ωατξηερ (α περσον) ις φύλαξ)

Bert · June 7, 2003, 9:31pm

Thanks for the replies.
If I would want to write -The soldiers in garison will hold the Persians- would oi( stratiwtai oi( e)n fulakh e(cousi touj persaj be correct?

annis · June 7, 2003, 11:44pm

[quote author=Bert de Haan link=board=2;threadid=151;start=0#730 date=1055021462]
Thanks for the replies.
If I would want to write -The soldiers in garison will hold the Persians- would oi( stratiwtai oi( e)n fulakh e(cousi touj persaj be correct?
[/quote]

Yes, but I have a very strong urge to see the attributive phrase so: oi( e)n th=| fulakh=|, with the article on the garrison, too.

Anyone else feel strongly the article is necessary here?

auctor · June 8, 2003, 9:12pm

Thanks for the replies.
If I would want to write -The soldiers in garison will hold the Persians- would oi( stratiwtai oi( e)n fulakh e(cousi touj persaj be correct?

Yes, but I have a very strong urge to see the attributive phrase so: oi( e)n th=| fulakh=|, with the article on the garrison, too.

Anyone else feel strongly the article is necessary here?

Wouldn’t the “in the garrison” be an ideal time to use a participle?

oi( stratiwtai e)n fulakh o)ntej …

Skylax · June 9, 2003, 12:15pm

See Anabasis, 4, 5, 29 : I believe it is the source of this sentence

tau/thn me\n th\n nu/kta diaskhnh/santej ou(/twj e)koimh/qhsan e)n pa=sin a)fqo/noij pa/ntej oi( stratiw=tai, e)n fulakh=| e)/xontej to\n kw/marxon kai\ ta\ te/kna au)tou= o(mou= e)n o)fqalmoi=j

“For that night, then, all - Xenophon’s - soldiers, in this village where they were thus separately quartered, went to bed amid an abundance of everything, keeping the village chief under guard and his children all together within sight.”

So e)n fulakh=| e)/xw means here “to keep on guard”. I looked on the Perseus site for the occurrences of fulakh/ in the Anabasis : it is always a guard, a group of guardsmen, soldiers mounting guard.

annis · June 9, 2003, 12:41pm

[quote author=auctor link=board=2;threadid=151;start=0#750 date=1055106765]
Wouldn’t the “in the garrison” be an ideal time to use a participle?
[/quote]

You would think so, but I can’t think of a time when I’ve seen any particple of ei)mi/ with this sort of prepositional phrase after an article.

auctor · June 9, 2003, 1:55pm

The following is taken from my JACT reader (and as such may or may not be unadulterated Greek)

[size=150]τίς οὑτος ὁ ἐπι της κρεμάθρας ὤν;

annis · June 9, 2003, 8:51pm

[quote author=auctor link=board=2;threadid=151;start=0#767 date=1055166914]
But it is the sort of construction I was suggesting to get over the ambiguity.
[/quote]

I guess I don’t really see any ambiguity here, especially given the habit in Greek of often dropping the verb “to be” anyway.

I just pulled Herodotus off the shelf and started thumbing through Book E (First chapter of the second volume of the OCT edition), and ran across two on the first page:

E.1. [size=150]οἱ δὲ ἐν τῇ εὐρώπῃ

Skylax · June 12, 2003, 9:23am

[quote author=auctor link=board=2;threadid=151;start=0#767 date=1055166914]

[size=150]τίς οὑτος ὁ ἐπι της κρεμάθρας ὤν;

Skylax · June 12, 2003, 9:59am

[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=151;start=0#771 date=1055191862]
I guess I don’t really see any ambiguity here, especially given the habit in Greek of often dropping the verb “to be” anyway.

I just pulled Herodotus off the shelf and started thumbing through Book E (First chapter of the second volume of the OCT edition), and ran across two on the first page:

E.1. [size=150]οἱ δὲ ἐν τῇ εὐρώπῃ