Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LVIII

[Propertius]

Exercises on pg. 144 in the workbook; answers on pg. 28 in answer key.

332.I

1. Caesar set the largest part of the buildings on fire. 2. A large part of the fortification was destroyed by the water of the river. 3. The Gauls of this region had gathered five thousand(s) (of) people. 4. Two of my brothers heard the same rumor. 5. Who of the Romans was more renowned than Caesar? 6. Five cohorts from that legion were defending the camp as bravely as possible. 7. This place was equally (by an equal distance) distant from Caesar’s camp and the Germans’ camp. 8. As soon as Caesar arrived, he demanded for more provisions from the allies. 9. Had the merchants not learned the size of the island? They had learned the length but not the width (of the island). 10. A few of the enemy obtained the hill that our scouts saw.

II.

A question regarding sentence 4: in the answer key to a hill is translated as in collem. Which should it be? In collem or ad collem, and why if you may briefly explain.

1. Duos fratres habeo/duo fratres mihi sunt, et unus ex iis Romae habitat.
2. Caesar cum tribus legionibus ipsum oppidum oppugnavit/oppugnabat.
3. Una hora magnam partem munitionis delevit.
4. Ubi hostes nihilo magis portas defendere poterant, se receperunt in/ad collem qui parvo spatio aberat.

Gratias tibi ago.

[bedwere]

332.I

1. Caesar set the largest part of the buildings on fire. 2. A large part of the fortification was destroyed by the water of the river. 3. The Gauls of this region had gathered five thousand people. 4. Two of my brothers heard the same rumor. 5. Who of the Romans was more renowned than Caesar? 6. Five cohorts from that legion were defending the camp as bravely as possible. 7. This place was equally distant from Caesar’s camp and the Germans’ camp. 8. As soon as Caesar arrived, he demanded more provisions from the allies. 9. Had the merchants not learned the size of the island? They had learned the length but not the width. 10. A few of the enemy occupied the hill that our scouts saw.

II.

1. Duōs/Duo frātrēs habeō (duo frātrēs mihi sunt), et ūnus ex eīs Rōmae vīvit/habitat. (Mihi sunt frātrēs duo quōrum alter Rōmae vīvit).
2. Caesar tribus legiōnibus ipsum oppidum oppugnāvit/oppugnābat.
3. Ūnā hōrā magnam partem mūnītiōnis dēlēvit.
4. Ubi hostēs portās diūtius dēfendere nōn potuērunt, sē in collem recēpērunt quī proximē/ « brevī spatiō »*/ « breve spatium »**) aberat. 5. Ibi eōrum tria mīlia Rōmānīs fortiter restitērunt. * Abl of measure of difference (as found in Cicero) ** Acc of extent (as found in Caesar)

I think in collem is better, as the sense is that they went to the hill as to enter into its space, rather than stopping at its foot.
Examples: in collem

[Propertius]

332.I

1. Caesar set the largest part of the buildings on fire. 2. A large part of the fortification was destroyed by the water of the river. 3. The Gauls of this region had gathered five thousand people. 4. Two of my brothers heard the same rumor. 5. Who of the Romans was more renowned than Caesar? 6. Five cohorts from that legion were defending the camp as bravely as possible. 7. This place was equally distant from Caesar’s camp and the Germans’ camp. 8. As soon as Caesar arrived, he demanded more provisions from the allies. 9. Had the merchants not learned the size of the island? They had learned the length but not the width. 10. A few of the enemy occupied the hill that our scouts saw.

II.

1. Duōs/Duo frātrēs habeō (duo frātrēs mihi sunt), et ūnus ex eīs Rōmae vīvit/habitat. (Mihi sunt frātrēs duo quōrum alter Rōmae vīvit).
2. Caesar tribus legiōnibus ipsum oppidum oppugnāvit/oppugnābat.
3. Ūnā hōrā magnam partem mūnītiōnis dēlēvit.
4. Ubi hostēs portās diūtius dēfendere nōn potuērunt, sē in collem recēpērunt quī proximē/ « brevī spatiō »*/ « breve spatium »**) aberat. 5. Ibi eōrum tria mīlia Rōmānīs fortiter restitērunt. * Abl of measure of difference (as found in Cicero) ** Acc of extent (as found in Caesar)

I think in collem is better, as the sense is that they went to the hill as to enter into its space, rather than stopping at its foot.
Examples: in collem

Why doesn’t sentence 2 of part 2 not need cum with tribus legionibus? Isn’t that an ablative of accompaniment? From what I’ve learned the ablative of accompaniment always requires the preposition. And I see now why in sentence 4 of the same part any longer should be translated as diutius, but couldn’t how I translated it (nihilo magis) also be a possible way of translating any longer in that context?

[bedwere]

Yes, I’m not adamant about the cum. It seemed to me that here the legions are more a means (i.e, Caesar is using them to storm the place), rather than people he is doing something together with. For sure, veniō would require a cum legiōnibus. But with oppugnō, I couldn’t find examples with or without cum! However, check Liv. 22 39.5:

Uarro dux tuis militibus te est oppugnaturus.



As for the second point, the footnote clearly leads the student to write diūtius.
nihilo magis seems to me more appropriate for incommensurable concepts and not for time.

Feel free to disagree, as I am not the oracle of Latin!

[Propertius]

Yes, I’m not adamant about the cum. It seemed to me that here the legions are more a means (i.e, Caesar is using them to storm the place), rather than people he is doing something together with. For sure, veniō would require a cum legiōnibus. But with oppugnō, I couldn’t find examples with or without cum! However, check Liv. 22 39.5:

Uarro dux tuis militibus te est oppugnaturus.



As for the second point, the footnote clearly leads the student to write diūtius.
nihilo magis seems to me more appropriate for incommensurable concepts and not for time.

Feel free to disagree, as I am not the oracle of Latin!

The ablative of means was my second choice. And I think I’m a long way from not considering any learned Latinist anything but an oracle.