Thucydides 7.87.1-4

Greek Learning Greek
1

I am delighted with my progress in Thucydides. I have been following The Intellectual Revolution (JACT). The notes are helpful but do not answer all of my questions. Here is the passage in full.

τοὺς δ᾽ ἐν ταῖς λιθοτομίαις οἱ Συρακόσιοι χαλεπῶς τοὺς πρώτους χρόνους μετεχείρισαν. ἐν γὰρ κοίλῳ χωρίῳ ὄντας καὶ ὀλίγῳ πολλοὺς οἵ τε ἥλιοι τὸ πρῶτον καὶ τὸ πνῖγος ἔτι ἐλύπει διὰ τὸ ἀστέγαστον καὶ αἱ νύκτες ἐπιγιγνόμεναι τοὐναντίον μετοπωριναὶ καὶ ψυχραὶ τῇ μεταβολῇ ἐς ἀσθένειαν ἐνεωτέριζον, [2] πάντα τε ποιούντων αὐτῶν διὰ στενοχωρίαν ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ καὶ προσέτι τῶν νεκρῶν ὁμοῦ ἐπ᾽ ἀλλήλοις ξυννενημένων, οἳ ἔκ τε τῶν τραυμάτων καὶ διὰ τὴν μεταβολὴν καὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον ἀπέθνῃσκον, καὶ ὀσμαὶ ἦσαν οὐκ ἀνεκτοί, καὶ λιμῷ ἅμα καὶ δίψῃ ἐπιέζοντο （ἐδίδοσαν γὰρ αὐτῶν ἑκάστῳ ἐπὶ ὀκτὼ μῆνας κοτύλην ὕδατος καὶ δύο κοτύλας σίτου）, ἄλλα τε ὅσα εἰκὸς ἐν τῷ τοιούτῳ χωρίῳ ἐμπεπτωκότας κακοπαθῆσαι, οὐδὲν ὅτι οὐκ ἐπεγένετο αὐτοῖς: [3] καὶ ἡμέρας μὲν ἑβδομήκοντά τινας οὕτω διῃτήθησαν ἁθρόοι: ἔπειτα πλὴν Ἀθηναίων καὶ εἴ τινες Σικελιωτῶν ἢ Ἰταλιωτῶν ξυνεστράτευσαν, τοὺς ἄλλους ἀπέδοντο. [4] ἐλήφθησαν δὲ οἱ ξύμπαντες, ἀκριβείᾳ μὲν χαλεπὸν ἐξειπεῖν, ὅμως δὲ οὐκ ἐλάσσους ἑπτακισχιλίων.

I am not sure what to make of τοὺς πρώτους χρόνους. The plural surprised me. I suppose it shouldn’t. It take it to refer to points in time, or moments. So would it mean “during the first periods of time?” What, did they treat them better later? No, I really can’t see it. My problem is that if I don’t find a gloss in the dictionaries, I’m stumped. Perhaps, I need some strategy for finding certain expressions in other contexts. I would be grateful for your ideas.

2

ἔπειτα later on picks up from τοὺς πρώτους χρόνους. Plural τοὺς πρώτους χρόνους is just a vague expression of time duration.

3

Thanks Hylander.

4

I don’t have a specific strategy to recommend, but you seem to be holding your own with a very difficult author.

5

No small thanks to my friends on Textkit.

6

I think the plural οἱ ἥλιοι is more striking than τους χρὸνους—certainly it’s more graphic—, but each is readily intelligible. Of course there’s no implication that they were treated any better later (there’s no μέν). Perhaps there’s a sense that they were treated harshly right from the outset, though there’s no καί or anything else to signal that, and as Hylander points out, ἔπειτα at 87.3 starkly marks the next phase, after this first phase has been summed up and its duration made more specific with και ημερας μεν εβδμηκοντα τινας οὕτω διῃτήθησαν (aorist!).

You know there’s no magic formula for getting better at reading, especially where Thucydides is concerned. It seems to me that you’re doing very well, enviably well even, and going about things the right way.
Michael

7

LSJ often has helpful glosses on specific passages. You can download a link on the Logeion website and a Greek keyboard on your phone and/or tablet to enter words. You don’t need to supply diacriticals.