Context: Pericles speaking to urge war sums up his comparison of the war resources of the Peloponnesians and the Athenians.
καὶ τὰ μὲν Πελοποννησίων ἔμοιγε τοιαῦτα καὶ παραπλήσια δοκεῖ εἶναι, τὰ δὲ ἡμέτερα τούτων τε ὧνπερ ἐκείνοις ἐμεμψάμην ἀπηλλάχθαι καὶ ἄλλα οὐκ ἀπὸ τοῦ ἴσου μεγάλα ἔχειν.
It means something like this: In the kinds of war resources held by the Peloponnesians, we see weaknesses of which our corresponding resources are free; but there are other resources we possess that are overwhelmingly superior to theirs.
I don’t understand the antecedent of “τούτων” in the phrase “τὰ δὲ ἡμέτερα τούτων τε ὧνπερ ἐκείνοις”.
In general, I don’t have a solid understanding of grammar of this passage.
Hey Hugh,
I think that τούτων refers to all the things that Pericles has been saying, i.e. τὰ Πελοποννησίων, i.e. that the Spartans lack money, their farming interferes with long wars, they are in a league with different interests, they are inferior at sea, etc. And I think this sentence responds to the statement at 1.141.2 τὰ δὲ τοῦ πολέμου καὶ τῶν ἑκατέροις ὑπαρχόντων ὡς οὐκ ἀσθενέστερα ἕξομεν γνῶτε καθ᾽ ἕκαστον ἀκούοντες.
The sentence has two main parts balanced by the μέν/δέ construction. The main verb δοκεῖ is understood in both parts and τὰ Πελοποννησίων and τὰ ἡμέτερα are its subjects. There are three declarative infinitives in a form of indirect statement, one in the μέν clause, and two in the δέ clause. The first statement of the δέ clause also contains a relative clause. I would diagram it but I’m not sure the formatting would work here.
There are two idioms to keep in mind: τοιαῦτα καὶ παραπλήσια, which means “like this or very close to it,” and ἀπὸ τοῦ ἴσου, used of power dynamics meaning “from an equal position.”
- καὶ τὰ μὲν Πελοποννησίων ἔμοιγε τοιαῦτα καὶ παραπλήσια δοκεῖ εἶναι, “and the particulars of the Peloponnesian situation seem to me at least to be like this or very close to it.” This refers to all the things he has been saying about Sparta.
2a. τὰ δὲ ἡμέτερα τούτων τε ὧνπερ ἐκείνοις ἐμεμψάμην ἀπηλλάχθαι [δοκεῖ], “on the other hand the particulars of our situation [seem] to be free from those things for which I criticized them.” The τε looks forward to καί to balance the two halves of the δέ clause. The infinitive ἀπηλλάχθαι takes a genitive complement τούτων, and ἐμεμψάμην takes a few different constructions, but probably here the dative of the person criticized (ἐκείνοις), where ὧνπερ should be the accusative direct object ἅπερ, but is attracted to the genitive τούτων instead.
2b. καὶ [τὰ ἡμέτερα] ἄλλα οὐκ ἀπὸ τοῦ ἴσου μεγάλα ἔχειν [δοκεῖ], “and [the particulars of our situation seem] to include other important things from a superior position,” literally, “from an unequal position,” but the context makes clear that he considers Athens to have the advantage.
Hopefully this helps and I didn’t mess up anything!
Nicholas
Thank you, Nicholas, for your masterly explanation. I must study your reply, but my immediate reaction is that you have cleared up the problems that bothered me.
Just another reply, Nicholas. Your comments were very helpful. I’m still studying them, because they are so rich in precepts. I needed a lot of work, but looking on the bright side, I did have at least an intermediate understanding of the grammar precepts in your commentary.
So glad it was helpful! It was a useful exercise for me as well.