The sound ae

[Bombichka]

@annis

Thomas, are we going to have to revisit this debate every time someone asks a pronunciation question?

@ThomasGR

Otherwise think about the masculine plural “-aioi”, it would be a torture for them to utter this sequence of vowels and speak them correctly.

As I have said repeatedly before, plenty of languages do just this sort of vowel sequence regularly, and the speakers give no signs they find it a torture speaking their native language. There is no reason at all to believe the Ancient Greeks would have found -aioi incapacitating.

sorry if, as a newbie, I have participated in reviving a debate with which you might be fed up already. I’ll try to abstain.

[ThomasGR]

OK, I apologize, maybe I was a little naughty, but other than making generalizations and repeatedly saying that there many languages that have long vowel clusters, you could not provide me any example of the kind “ευυ-”, “οιο-”,“ευει-” (at the beginning of a word) or words like “ευοίωνος” or “ευαοίοι” in any other language. Even Malaysian or Haitian (langauages famous for extensive use of vowels) don’t have that.

[Eureka]

@ThomasGR

OK, I apologize, maybe I was a little naughty, but other than making generalizations and repeatedly saying that there many languages that have long vowel clusters, you could not provide me any example of the kind “ευυ-”, “οιο-”,“ευει-” (at the beginning of a word) or words like “ευοίωνος” or “ευαοίοι” in any other language. Even Malaysian or Haitian (langauages famous for extensive use of vowels) don’t have that.

Many of those vowels were in fact semivowels, so you shouldn’t worry about “long vowel clusters”.

For example, ευοίωνος would be “ew-woy-yo-nôs”. No long vowel clusters at all.

[Bombichka]

@Eureka

Many of those vowels were in fact semivowels, so you shouldn’t worry about “long vowel clusters”.

For example, ευοίωνος would be “ew-woy-yo-nôs”. No long vowel clusters at all.

that’s right. in fact, I mentioned semivowel clusters, and not vowel clusters. the latter notion is a kind of [size=150]ὀξύμωρον

[ThomasGR]

@Eureka

@ThomasGR

OK, I apologize, maybe I was a little naughty, but other than making generalizations and repeatedly saying that there many languages that have long vowel clusters, you could not provide me any example of the kind “ευυ-”, “οιο-”,“ευει-” (at the beginning of a word) or words like “ευοίωνος” or “ευαοίοι” in any other language. Even Malaysian or Haitian (langauages famous for extensive use of vowels) don’t have that.

Many of those vowels were in fact semivowels, so you shouldn’t worry about “long vowel clusters”.

For example, ευοίωνος would be “ew-woy-yo-nôs”. No long vowel clusters at all.

I will disagree, I promis it’s the last time, but only iota serves as a semivowel (in the above example) and only after a consonat, not following a vowel. In the last case it creates a diphthong (semivowels do not that!) and … guess what, I fell in love with Koine-pronunciation and find reading Pindar and Homer this way even more attractve.

[Eureka]

@ThomasGR

I will disagree, I promis it’s the last time, but only iota serves as a semivowel (in the above example) and only after a consonat, not following a vowel. In the last case it creates a diphthong (semivowels do not that!) and …

There is plenty of evidence from Linear-B inscriptions that iota had the value of /j/ when in diphthongs that preceded a vowel.

@ThomasGR

guess what, I fell in love with Koine-pronunciation and find reading Pindar and Homer this way even more attractve.

You lose most of the onomatopoeia if you do that, but it’s obviously up to you.

[Bombichka]

@ThomasGR

In the last case it creates a diphthong (semivowels do not that!)

On the contrary, this is exactly what semivowels do all the time! be sure to refresh your phonetics.

@ThomasGR

and … guess what, I fell in love with Koine-pronunciation

yes, we can see that quite clearly but personal feelings are one thing, and the actual state of affairs is another. besides, the Modern Greek pronunciation maybe ain’t exactly how it could have sounded to the original readers of the New Testament.

but everybody is free to choose the pronunciation that (s)he likes.

[size=150]εἰρήνη σοι[/size]

[annis]

@ThomasGR

OK, I apologize, maybe I was a little naughty, but other than making generalizations and repeatedly saying that there many languages that have long vowel clusters, you could not provide me any example

A random selection, off the top of my head, from Japanese.

aoi - blue (there is a manga genre called yaoi)
iie - no
toriaezu “that’s it, that’s all”

[annis]

@ThomasGR

guess what, I fell in love with Koine-pronunciation and find reading Pindar and Homer this way even more attractve.

Good! I actually don’t really care much how people pronounce their Greek. But if someone asks about the reconstructed pronunciation, I wish we could just focus on that.

[Astraea]

@annis

Nice work on the avatar, Astraea (however we pronounce it).

Thank you… and I had no idea I was asking such a controversial question…