I have questions about three sentences which all contain “quia”.
First of all, I notice that in English we write “… , because …” (i.e. the sentence contains a comma before “because”) while the comma doesn’t exist before "quia. There isn’t much punctuation in Latin, is there ?
Sentence 1 : Puella Dianae coronam dat quia Dianam amat.[size=18=9]94 Ι, 8 0br /br /I’m not sure whether this sentences translates to :br / A girl gives a wreath to Diana because she (the girl) loves Diana.br /or…br / A girl gives a wreath to diana, because Diana loves wreaths.br /br /The “quia Dianam amat” part seems like it’s missing something … like “Diana loves " or "_ loves Diana”.br /br /br /Sentence 2 : The girls give a wreath to Julia, because Julia loves wreaths.[size=18=9](47ιι, 2)
mariek:
Sentence 1 : Puella Dianae coronam dat quia Dianam amat.(47I, 8 )
I’m not sure whether this sentences translates to :
A girl gives a wreath to Diana because she (the girl) loves Diana.
or…
A girl gives a wreath to diana, because Diana loves wreaths.
The “quia Dianam amat” part seems like it’s missing something … like “Diana loves " or "_ loves Diana”.
Magistra:
Your first one is right. Amat ends in -t which represents he/she/it. Dianam ends in -am-> accusative → direct object.
mariek:
Sentence 2 : The girls give a wreath to Julia, because Julia loves wreaths.(47II, 2)
I translated this to :
Puellae Juliae coronam dant quia Julia coronam amat.
Magistra:
OK except coronam; you need acc. pl. → coronas
mariek:
Sentence 3 : The sailors tell the ladies a story, because the labies love stories.(47II, 3)
I translated this to :
Nautae dominae fabulam narrant quia dominae fabulas amant.
Magistra:
“Ladies” is plural so you need dominis (dat. pl.) in the first part of your sentence.
Overall, looking good! Watch out for plurals, though.
As far as punctuation goes, the ancients of the Classical Period pretty much didn’t use any.
This site traces the development of punctuation:
http://medievalwriting.50megs.com/scripts/punctuation/punctuation1.htm<br />
Magistra
heh yeah 
with quia, not to act as though I be an expert, but I take all nom, dat, gen, acc, abl and piece them together. Whichever one make sense.
For example, benis. ’ wrote something like
Nemo… patriam quia magna est amat, sed quia sua.
I asked him about this. Hard. Notice he put est and amat at the end.
B.L.D makes longer sentences in no time !
Nice one for going through the book!!
mox erimus aptus dicere Latine. (hah i think!)
[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1264 date=1058023732]
mariek:
Sentence 1 : Puella Dianae coronam dat quia Dianam amat.(47I, 8 )
I’m not sure whether this sentences translates to :
A girl gives a wreath to Diana because she (the girl) loves Diana.
or…
A girl gives a wreath to diana, because Diana loves wreaths.
The “quia Dianam amat” part seems like it’s missing something … like “Diana loves " or "_ loves Diana”.
Magistra:
Your first one is right. Amat ends in -t which represents he/she/it. Dianam ends in -am-> accusative → direct object.
[/quote]
Well, when you put it that way it semes to make perfect sense. It just confuses me when I’m trying to piece everything together.
How do you approach reading a sentence like this? Just read it from left to right and it all somehow comes together?
What throws me off is reading the first part “Puella Dianae” and thinking that Dianae is a genitive singular word because of the -ae ending. Then I do a double take and realize that Dianae is actually the dative singular word in the sentence.
[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1264 date=1058023732]
mariek:
Sentence 3 : The sailors tell the ladies a story, because the ladies love stories.(47II, 3)
I translated this to :
Nautae dominae fabulam narrant quia dominae fabulas amant.
Magistra:
“Ladies” is plural so you need dominis (dat. pl.) in the first part of your sentence.[/quote]
D’oh! I got hung up on the -ae ending for the dative.[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1264 date=1058023732]
As far as punctuation goes, the ancients of the Classical Period pretty much didn’t use any. http://medievalwriting.50megs.com/scripts/punctuation/punctuation1.htm[/quote]
Neat website ! I love how they have example graphics of the various styles. They’re beautiful but some are impossible to read.
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1267 date=1058029562]
with quia, not to act as though I be an expert, but I take all nom, dat, gen, acc, abl and piece them together. Whichever one make sense.[/quote]
Yeah, taking all the parts and piecing them together … that’s what I try to do too, but I often get confused.
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1267 date=1058029562]
Nemo… patriam quia magna est amat, sed quia sua.[/quote]
So what does this sentence mean? Is it the “est amat” that is the curve ball? Sorry, I haven’t gotten that far yet.
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1267 date=1058029562]
B.L.D makes longer sentences in no time ![/quote]
LONGER?? Hmm… plenty of new challenges ahead, eh?
Well I hope to be able to create simple conversational sentences soon… need to work harder/faster… I’m trying to digest all this stuff as fast as I can…
How do you approach reading a sentence like this? Just read it from left to right and it all somehow comes together?
My teacher always suggested finding the subject, then the verb, and finally the object. I always ignored that advice and just forced myself to read the sentence as is until I could finally understand most sentences. The method is somewhat confusing, but I think it’s more rewarding and natural. I agree, datives (and ablatives) can be very troublesome. There is always a moment in my mind (even when reading that sentence) that I consider it to be a genitive before logic tells me that it’s a dative. Fortunately, in third declension, the singular forms are all distinct.
Nemo… patriam quia magna est amat, sed quia sua.
No one… loves (their) fatherland because it is great, but because (it is) their own.
In my experience, all words of the the “qui/quae/quod” familiar are troublesome. Don’t worry too much if they give you trouble, as long as your sentences are fairly accurate. When you’re always learning new things, and making errors, it may not seem like progress. This is because you already know the things which you previously made errors on and are just moving onto more advanced errors! 
[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1287 date=1058064231]My teacher always suggested finding the subject, then the verb, and finally the object. I always ignored that advice and just forced myself to read the sentence as is until I could finally understand most sentences.[/quote]
Yes, I agree that your method is more natural. I’m just having difficulties rearranging all the words in my head. So for now, I’m using your teacher’s method. I do my exercises on my computer because it’s so much easier to rearrange words, line up my ducks, and dot my i’s and cross my t’s. I don’t know how anyone can do this with pen and paper! I’m looking forward to the day when I can read a Latin sentence straight through from left to right and not have to think too hard to understand it.
hahah mariek you are the man
seriously don’t try working too fast it’ll go over your head!!
i do 1 exercise per night if I have one session or If I 30 mins in the day free have, another one then.
Especially when you get further. Onto the verbs and 9 irregular adjectives (AAH!) and is, ea, id - a lot must be remembered and then you really should concentrate on one thing per day. I remember doing the 9 rings of power in 3 days.
what was also hard about that sentence was that ‘sed quia sua’ lacked a verb. but when I thought about it it made no sense to put another est in.
It’s useful to be aware of the verb you’re dealing with, for example ‘dare’, to give, takes an indirect object i.e to/for something in stead of I …ed something-am!
On a computer?! I’d have a major headache! All that light and Latin non mixant ;D
I am reading Niobe and her children ;D
And really I am pleased as hell with progress. I remember everything D’ooge has taught, almost out of respect.
I felt so confident, but then…this (ok a little Off topic!) is just a GCSE set text. GCSEs in french, german etc. are simple, grammar isn’t even required to be taught! but nasty!
come on benis! magister!
at regina
gravi iamdudum saucia cura
vulnus alit venis
et caeco carpitur igni.
multa viri virtus
animo, multusque recursat
gentis honos:
haerent infixi pectore
vultus verbaque,
nec placidam membris dat cura
quietem.
postera (Aurora)
Phoebea lustrabat lampade terras
umentemque polo dimoverat umbram,
cum sic … adloquitur male sana
unanimam sororem:
‘Anna soror,
quae me suspensam insomnia terrent!
Quis novus hic … hospes,
nostris successit sedibus!
quem sese ore ferens,
quam forti pectore et armis!
credo equidem,
nec vana fides,
genus esse deorum.
degeneres animos timor arguit:
heu, quibus ille iactatus fatis!
quae bella exhausta
canebat
Episcopus dixit:
this (ok a little Off topic!) is just a GCSE set text. GCSEs in french, german etc. are simple, grammar isn’t even required to be taught! but nasty!
Magistra quaerit:
What is a GCSE set text?
The passage you wrote sure isn’t Niobe. It’s the beginning of Book II of Vergil’s Aeneid. It starts with the epic simile of Dido being compared to a deer.
Magistra
mariek:
How do you approach reading a sentence like this? Just read it from left to right and it all somehow comes together?
benissimus:
My teacher always suggested finding the subject, then the verb, and finally the object. I always ignored that advice and just forced myself to read the sentence as is until I could finally understand most sentences.
Do you want to decode or read Latin?
Read the 1st article on this page (Fluent Latin)& decide for yourself.
http://www.txclassics.org/ginny_articles1.htm<br />
Magistra
P.S. Since I learned by the decoding method & used it for many years, it still influences my reading, but I’ve broken away from it as much as possible. When I read, I do a bit of both methods.
I try to read Latin from left to right, although I learned to do it like Benissimus too. Imagine what happens by the time you encounter subclauses: which verb belongs to which part? It’s more like solving a puzzle that reading a text. Besides, the Romans could read from left to right, and they didn’t even uses spaces to mark the words (although they read out loud, and rather slowly, so maybe we should too).
You could make a list of possible endings with their functions, say:
(I use i: and u: for the long vowels)
-a nom.s.
-a: abl.s.
-ae gen/dat.s./nom.plu.
-am acc.s.
-arum gen.plu.
-i:s dat/abl.plu.
Now you try a sentence from left to right:
Nauta agricoli:s fugam nu:ntiat.
Nauta: a sailor; nom.s., a sailor does something
agricoli:s: farmers dative or ablative plural, so the sailor probably does something to the farmers (I wouldn’t know how the farmers could be ablative here)
fugam: flight; acc.s. the sailor does a flight to the farmers
nu:ntiat: announces (3rd person sing.). the sailor announces the flight to the farmers.
When you encounter the next declension, you just add its endings to your list. More possibilities, more fun .
There is some text about reading Latin on the Perseus site, with a far more elaborate example than this, but I hope this helps.
Vale,
Ingrid
:)Of course, after a while that list of possible endings should be in your head instead of on a paper, if you want to read fluently. It’s supposed to be a learning aid.
Vale,
Ingrid
[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1312 date=1058105629]
Episcopus dixit:
this (ok a little Off topic!) is just a GCSE set text. GCSEs in french, german etc. are simple, grammar isn’t even required to be taught! but nasty!
Magistra quaerit:
What is a GCSE set text?
The passage you wrote sure isn’t Niobe. It’s the beginning of Book II of Vergil’s Aeneid. It starts with the epic simile of Dido being compared to a deer.
Magistra
[/quote]
GCSE is a U.K qualification; this is a text that was in a previous examination paper!
I knew it was Aeneid, I just said at the moment I am reading Niobe 
Yeah, one needs to stop to ‘decode’ Latin and begin to think in Latin, I suppose!
if anyone learns german here, thinking in german is vital to speak even simple sentences. Word order is a beast, but thankfully becomes instinct later on.
It just doesn’t seem to happen with Latin because of the free word order almost!
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1300 date=1058096181][/quote]
i do 1 exercise per night if I have one session or If I 30 mins in the day free have, another one then.
I’m amused it looks like your Latin grammar has bled into your English grammar since you put the verb “have” at the end after “free”.
the 9 rings of power
Sounds like something from Lord of the Rings! LOL!
The book has only just touched a bit on adjectives; we haven’t yet dived right into the meaty parts. What are is, ea, and id?
On a computer?! I’d have a major headache! All that light and Latin non mixant ;D
I take it you do everything the old fashioned way? Writing with pen and paper? My hand is lazy and can’t write for very long because I do most of my “writing” on the computer. I can type faster than writing.
a GCSE set text
i don’t know what a GCSE set text is. What is it?
[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1313 date=1058106162][/quote]_
Do you want to decode or read Latin?
Read the 1st article on this page (Fluent Latin)& decide for yourself.
http://www.txclassics.org/ginny_articles1.htm_
Very interesting article. I’m not entirely confident that I can pull this off right from the start. I think I need to let all the declensions sink into memory first and then I’ll be better prepared. I’ll try to “read” Latin when I do my exercises, but I have the feeling I’ll need to “decode” for a while longer. I’ve bookmarked the page for future reference, I think it will make more sense to me once I’ve gotten more of the grammar basics down.
[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1315 date=1058106803][/quote]You could make a list of possible endings with their functions
Yes, I have to have my “cheat sheet” in front of me. It enumerates all the words I’ve learned so far and I add more to it as I progress through the book. And I also have a chart with all the possible endings, though mine is a little different from yours:
s pl
nom -a -ae
gen -ae -arum
dat -ae -is
acc -am -as
abl -a -is
I have to visualize this in a “chart” format, it seems to stick in my mind better this way. I find it helps to have everything on this sheet, otherwise I’d spend too much time flipping back and forth through the book.
I will try to find that text on the Perseus site.
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1318 date=1058110273][/quote]GCSE is a U.K qualification; this is a text that was in a previous examination paper!
So… GCSE is some sort of examination that you must pass to graduate from high school or to matriculate into college?
I’m still having trouble with the free word order in Latin. I have to get over the fact that the subject of the sentence is not necessarily at the beginning of the sentence.
[quote author=ingrid70 link=board=3;threadid=242;start=0#1315 date=1058106803]You could make a list of possible endings with their functions, say: (I use i: and u: for the long vowels) [/quote]
Ingrid, I just wanted to let you know that I’ve started to adopt your colon ( notation to note the long vowels when I’m typing up my Latin exercises. It really helps me try to remember where the long vowels are.
SOME ONE ! END THIS MADNESS! GIVE US MACRONS!
GCSE are huge exams done at 16 years old.
I stole an exercise book from my school…I’ll be needing a new one soon actually!
[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=242;start=15#1370 date=1058221199]GCSE are huge exams done at 16 years old.
I stole an exercise book from my school…I’ll be needing a new one soon actually![/quote]
So I guess Latin in one of the topics you’re tested on. Does that mean Latin is a required course in school?
Don’t say “stole”, but rather “borrowed indefinitely”. ;D Actually, possession is 90% ownership … or something like that.