Same ol’ same ol’ Israeli propaganda from pmw.org. 
Don’t waste your bandwidth, folks.
Few more right-wing propaganda:
Hizbollah increases pay for suicide attacks from $20,000 to $100,000 after Israel returns terrorists bodies in “goodwill gesture”
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/434
And then, I bother to ask, why they don’t have secure bomb shelters for kids. There is no money left to waste on that crap.
I am wondering all the time if this “Sheesh” is directed towards me, or towards the dirty war in Palestine. I like to think it is the second case.
Whatever, keep in mind that we deal here with a quite different culture where human life don’t count that much, and children less. do not surprise if they command their kids to follow closely a freedom fighter, for freedom fighter’s protection (knowing the Israelis would hesitate to open fire at them) and for the kids to learn and take lessons how to become a brave martyr. Make a search in the Internet to get plenty of videos from witnesses how they call for the civilians to gather on the top of roofs, to make a fireplace to warm their hands but also for the Israeli DF to become aware of their existence. They (the IDF) might hesitate to drop the bombs. And if despite of all this they do, reporters stand by ready to take pictures and broadcast videos of the Zionist brutality. Among the civilians are plenty of kids ready to become heroes.
Also keep always in mind, this is primarily a propaganda war and not a conventional war, not even like a guerrilla war used to be in past decades, in Viet Nam or South America. Not at all. The real battle field is the internet (and to lesser extent the news in tv and old press). What we write here and in other forums counts to them by far more than deaths of few (or many) babies. That’s another culture and they have other values to follow. If you want to save some children’s lives, stop falling into their traps. Many babies will thank you.
quite an interesting research is here (of the last war in Lebanon):
http://www.eureferendum.com/admin/media/Corruption%20of%20the%20Media.pdf
Brave Palestinian child VS. Coward Israeli Soldier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=604n9YKaleY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P27aZH3Kw0Y&feature=related
For my part, the “sheesh” was directed at your simplistic view of things, Thomas. I respect your ideas on other areas of knowledge, but in this case I cannot help but roll my eyes at your assertions that the Palestinians are themselves to blame. You did not bother to make a distinction between Hamas (and nobody here, I presume, cares about Hamas) and the broader population who just wants to live normal lives. They voted for Hamas, sure, but did they vote for the destruction of Israel? I don’t think that’s the case. Before Israelis pulled out of Gaza, Hamas was very different in terms of how they managed life for the Gazans. They built schools and hospitals… they got things done. This is what, in my view, the Gazans voted for. On the contrary, to say that the broader population is just as blood-thirsty as the Hamas combatants, or to view them as a lowly, stupid race, is plain wrong, and betrays a complete lack of empathy. (Reminds me of how the West viewed those “damn Japs” during World War II.)
I really don’t care at this moment if Hamas or Israel started this. Both have been at each others throat for a long time. What I care most about is the suffering of the innocent and defenseless, be they Palestinians or Israelis (though most of the suffering is on the Palestinian side).
Lots of people are have died in this mess, and many more lives have been made quite miserable.
Do any of you have some plan of action that people not in the halls of power for the Hamas or Israeli governments can practically do? If not, why should the rest of us listen to you?
Epideictic oratory is entertaining and all but when people are dying, after a while it just seems so much self-righteous posturing.
My understanding at the time was that mostly they were voting against the corrupt and incapable Fatah party.
I love how it’s either/or in this case: The Israelis are 100% to blame for ALL the trouble in the region or the Palestinians are 100% to blame for the same. They are also to be blamed in bulk it seems. Interesting and to keep in mind next time someone says “all Greeks are X” I guess 
Another thing I just love is how one wrong justifies another. For some reason I keep having flashes of me in kindergarden and elementary school trying to excuse myself to my mom in a rather whinny voice and she replying with the quite useful (and true) cliches out of the “Handbook for mothers across the globe”.
I don’t think my views are so much simplistic. They are quite elaborated (I think). Hamas, Palestinians or whatever they like to call their organizations may have all the rights to make wars and free their homeland, as long they fall not on such dirty tricks like human shields and showing pictures of dead babies to applaud to my sympathy or empathy or whatever. Thinks don’t work always this way, every person working in the advertisement knows that too well. Mostly, the results are (not surprisingly) negative for the advertisant. Time has come they learn that too. And the voters are not innocent, they new what Hams stands for, aside from news papers, Hamas has the monopoly in broad casting in this region. Search the internet to have a taste yourselves, what they broadcast and what dreams they have for the future in this region. Simplistic view is to denounce all the facts by just shouting “this is Zionist propaganda shame on you (me)”. Sheeeshh
Oh, I am sorry, I didn’t realize that simply venting one’s frustrations was “epideictic oratory” and “self-righteous posturing”.
No, I do not have a plan of action. This problem between Muslims and Jews is beyond me. So I guess it’s up to each person to decide whether he wants to listen to me or not (this is a free world, no?)
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from studying History, is that human actions are complicated, and most of the time they are neither fully right or fully wrong. So I neither subscribe to Bush’s “War on Terror” nor to the Islamic extremists’ “it’s ALL a Jewish/Zionist conspiracy” theories.
What?! Palestinians are not an organization!
…such dirty tricks like human shields and showing pictures of dead babies to applaud to my sympathy or empathy or whatever.
I see, so they show their dead to gain sympathy for… what? Money? If it’s so simple, why don’t the Western governments and media simply ignore them? Why do they constantly fall into their “trap”? Unless you say that they too are stupid and ignorant?
Simplistic view is to denounce all the facts by just shouting “this is Zionist propaganda shame on you (me)”. Sheeeshh
You are right on the money there! (Could we stop using the expression “sheesh”, please? It’s making me nauseous.)
No one is stupid. governments don’t fall on this. Aside from verbal condemnations, just to calm their voters and the public opinion (antisemitism has deep roots), they support Israel and curse Hamas. The same goes also for the entire Arab world (Iran is not an Arab country). Even Hezbollah wants to be a good boy, denies every support and tears their fleshes apart swearing that they don’t have anything to do with the rockets that are fired in south Lebanon last days. I think, the whole Arab world has empowered Israel to make a short process with Hamas and end this madness. They have learned their lessons, good achievements. The Arabs feel deep gratitude towards Israel, they pray to God Israel will not disappoint them. Newspapers are a different case. Antisemitism is in the rise in Europe, they have to make business as usual. Money? Yes, of course, it’s money. Dead bodies, especially dead babies, sell very well. Sudan and its genocide is too far away to make any profitable business, I try to remember how its region is called and failed (Darfur?). Besides, there are no Jews involved. This is outrageous blasphemous (…that no Jews are involved in that genocide). (Simplicity rulez!).
Off topic…
If you recall my fair textkitten, I did say that Greeks like you were the exception. And if you’re half as good looking as you are smart, then you’re one kickass superbabe. 
!
Greece consistently ranks behind most—if not all—developed countries in the maths and sciences. (Do you see any irony there?) On every street corner in Greece there is a φροντιστίριο. Their purpose being not to complement the public education system—as they do in Southeast Asia—but to help Greek students catch up. How embarrassing. Next, the Greek used on the radio and TV is atrocious (don’t get me started on the newspapers). Is it any wonder Greeks can’t speak proper Greek. Next, if a Greek wants to learn ancient Greek—enough. Listen, I regret saying it, that is, airing Greece’s “dirty laundry” (plug your nose) here. I said it because, as a Greek (I have dual Can-Gr citizenship), I give a hoot. That’s it. Finished.
My, what a beautiful smile you have, Irene.
On topic…
Another thing I just love is how one wrong justifies another.
What “wrong” have the occupied people of Gaza committed upon their occupiers?
edit: typos
What are you talking about, and what does this have to do with the occupied people of Palestine?
By “lots of people” you obviously meant “Palestinians,” right?
Latest news reports have at least 820 Palestinians dead.
Repeat: 820+ Palestinian dead for 4 Israeli dead.
Are you appalled by this as I am?
Do any of you have some plan of action that people not in the halls of power for the Hamas or Israeli governments can practically do? If not, why should the rest of us listen to you?
Actually, the principles for a “plan of action” have been embodied in UN resolution 242 and later UN resolutions calling for full Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza—that is, full withdrawal to the pre-1967 borders—and the creation of a Palestinian state in these territories in exchange for the unconditional recognition of Israel.
That has been the international consensus for decades. It has been accepted by the Palestinian Authority, the Arab league and—yes!—even Hamas. Unfortunately, your country and Israel have always opposed it.
Go to the United Nations website unispal.org (United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine). Every year—every year!—the General Assembly votes on a resolution on the settlement of the Palestine conflict. Here’s an excerpt from the December 1, 2006 vote:
Stressing the need for realization of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, primarily the right to self-determination and the right to their independent State, the Assembly adopted, by a recorded vote of 157 in favour to 7 against (Australia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States), with 10 abstentions, an orally amended text on the “peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine,” which stressed the need for Israel’s withdrawal from the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967.
Every year, William, the vote is basically the same: The United States, Israel, and some Pacific atoll “superpowers”, like Nauru, versus the rest of the world.
You see the problem now?
Unless you were playing devil’s advocate here, William, I am a bit surprised that you didn’t know this. I mean anyone who knows the reason why Hamas was elected to represent the Palestinian people surely must know why there has not been a political settlement all these years. 
Epideictic oratory is entertaining and all but when > [Palestinians] > are dying, after a while it just seems so much self-righteous posturing.
Yes… ThomasGR is quite the entertaining chap.
Not at all. I was only posting some videos of Hamas. They and these videos are quite hilarious. Their views even more. Sheeshh
Besides, Hamas does not recognize UN. They all are Zionists, filtrated and penetrated by Jews, pigs and apes.
Please stop fooling around, TG.
Me? This is the rhetoric of Hamas and all the likes. Are you surprised? Sheeshh, indeed.
And the troll awards this year go to…
No, I did not mean Palestinians. Nor did I mean just this conflict. I mean what I said — lots of people, people all over the place. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been a festering wound in the region since before I was born (almost 40 years ago, now). Neighboring countries are in constant danger of chaos: Jordan was terrorized by PLO would-be warlords in the 60s; Lebanon, with enough problems of its own, has to contend both with Palestinian organizations but is endlessly interfered with by Iran, generally by way of Syria; Israel lives under constant threat of terrorism or invasion, and its allies become targets, too. The effects of this instability (political, economic, moral) spread out across the world.
Do any of you have some plan of action that people not in the halls of power for the Hamas or Israeli governments can practically do? If not, why should the rest of us listen to you?
Actually, the principles for a “plan of action” have been embodied in UN resolution 242 and later UN resolutions calling for full Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories of the West Bank,
You misunderstand my question. Reciting the wording of a toothless resolution by a slowly dying body with little genuine authority is not a plan of action — just more damn words.
Here’s the International Red Cross: http://www.icrc.org/eng — go give them money. They’re trying to help the Palestinian civilians being brutalized by this disaster. Find a politician to harass into action (if one can be found who’ll listen to someone other than the paymasters). There are plenty organizations in Israel interested in a just peace for themselves and the Palestinians. Find one and find some way to help them.
(Edit: I’m also a fan of OXFAM, which should have resonance for Hellenists.)
This disaster has been going on for more than 50 years; the same arguments are churned over for 50 years; the same venting for 50 years. How much longer can all this talking decently go on while people are being brutalized?