Seneca Thyestes 24 February 3pm ET

Textkit Community Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
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Reading Greek Tragedy Online

The latest in the series is Seneca’s masterpiece Thyestes.

Live stream available at chs.harvard.edu or https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4CZOzGtFzZe2pcONCNT15w

Dont forget that these performances are in English Translation and that the actors are not classicists nor do they rehearse much in advance. Nevertheless all of the performances so far have had something well worth listening to. The discussions are usually pretty illuminating. It is especially interesting to hear what the actors feel about their characters.

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Thank you, Seneca!
I’ll definitely be watching. It should be interesting to see how Thyestes is received by contemporary readers and actors.

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Before I say anything else, I must say Sara Valentine’s portrayal of Atreus was brilliant! The reading is hosted by Joel Christenson of Brandeis University with commentary provided by Helen Slaney, whose expertise lies in classical reception. In a way, the dialogue between Helen and Joel reminded me a bit of an “In Our Time” podcast with Melvyn Bragg-highly informative, yet very approachable. Major topics in Senecan drama are addressed - metatheatricality, performance vs. recitation, theatricality of Roman society in the Neronian era, influence of Stoic philosophy and of course analysis of Seneca’s characters in this play.

Producing the play in a Zoom format made it possible to imagine how the play may have been presented originally. As to the rendering of the play, there were some interesting departures: The prologue/Act I is read, then Christensen gives some introductory remarks and questions along with Helen Slaney, thus providing the necessary background for appreciating the play. Then on we go to Act II, where Atreus is trying to think up a punishment for Thyestes which will surpass all others. The choruses are replaced with guitar improvisations! This of course makes it possible to fit the performance and the discussion into the time frame of an hour and a half. I did try to read the choruses during the guitar riffs, but I just wasn’t fast enough!

As I mentioned at the top, Sara Valentine captures Atreus’ character perfectly. In Act III, where Atreus executes his trap and lures Thyestes back to the palace, Sara exhibits all the characteristics one would expect of Atreus: brilliant schemer, convincing actor, a man in total control of his situation. Throughout the play, there is no question that Atreus is running the show and Sara’s reading makes this quite clear. In Act IV, the famous messenger scene, Tim Delap does a convincing job of how appalled he is at what he has to relate. The messenger’s description of Atreus’ butchering of the Thyestes’ sons is Seneca’s vehicle for dealing with the gruesome details. Also, this I believe is a novel use of the chorus where the entire act is set as a dialogue between the Messenger and the Chorus.

The point is made early on that Atreus and Thyestes are equally bad men, yet David Rubin’s Thyestes still evokes sympathy in Act V when he learns far too late what he’s done. David also asks a very good question at the end, namely:
Why is the title of the play ‘Thyestes’, when it’s obvious that Atreus is the ‘star of the show’? Helen Slaney’s answer is that Atreus operates at a consistently high level of energy and directs the action from start to finish, whereas Thyestes is the object of that action, the one who is manipulated and whose vacillating responses to changing circumstances show us the effects of Atreus’ project of revenge.

All in all, a very worthwhile afternoon and my thanks to our Seneca for letting us know about the event! For those who missed it, here’s a link to all previous episodes of “Reading Greek Tragedy Online” to which Thyestes has been added:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq5ea-jR9u2ojLpe4x3suBCx1eGuXwnL2

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Thanks Aetos for posting such a lively account of this performance.

One of the important things one can get from a performance like this, however truncated, is the sense of collusion the audience feels with Atreus. On the page beginning of Act 5 starts at such a high pitch it is difficult to see how the intensity can increase. This is where performance with professional actors can show us the way. Who wouldn’t thrill to the lines (885-891):

Aequalis astris gradior et cunctos super
altum superbo vertice attingens polum.
nunc decora regni teneo, nunc solium patris.
dimitto superos: summa votorum attigi.
bene est, abunde est, iam sat est etiam mihi.
sed cur satis sit? pergam et implebo patrem
funere suorum,…



Peer of the stars I stride, out-topping all men, my proud head reaching to the lofty sky. Now I hold the kingdom’s glories, now my father’s throne. I discharge the gods: I have reached the pinnacle of my prayers. This is good, this is ample, this is enough now, even for me. But why should it be enough? I shall go on, and fill the father with the death of his sons. (Fitch)

The dismissal of the Gods is particularly chilling and thrilling.

The messenger speech has some of my favourite descriptive lines which since my visit to Rome last year and the wonderful Reading University course on the city has greatly enhanced their effect on me.

In arce summa Pelopiae pars est domus
conversa ad austros, cuius extremum latus
aequale monti crescit atque urbem premit
et contumacem regibus populum suis
645habet sub ictu. fulget hic turbae capax
immane tectum, cuius auratas trabes
variis columnae nobiles maculis ferunt.
post ista vulgo nota, quae populi colunt,
in multa dives spatia discedit domus.
arcana in imo regio secessu iacet,
alta vetustum valle compescens nemus,
penetrale regni, nulla qua laetos solet
praebere ramos arbor aut ferro coli,
sed taxus et cupressus et nigra ilice
655obscura nutat silva, quam supra eminens
despectat alte quercus et vincit nemus.
hinc auspicari regna Tantalidae solent,
hinc petere lassis rebus ac dubiis opem.
affixa inhaerent dona: vocales tubae
660fractique currus, spolia Myrtoi maris,
victaeque falsis axibus pendent rotae
et omne gentis facinus; hoc Phrygius loco
fixus tiaras Pelopis, hic praeda hostium
et de triumpho picta barbarico chlamys.
665fons stat sub umbra tristis et nigra piger
haeret palude:…

“On the summit of the citadel is a section of the House of Pelops that faces south. Its outer flank rises up like a mountain, hemming in the city and holding in striking range a populace defiant of its kings. Here is a vast gleaming hall, room enough for a multitude, its gilded roof beams supported by columns with conspicuous varied markings. Behind these public rooms, where whole peoples pay court, the wealthy house goes back into space upon space. At the farthest and lowest remove there lies a secret area that confines an age-old woodland in a deep vale—the inner sanctum of the realm. There are no trees here such as stretch out healthy branches and are tended with the knife, but yews and cypresses and a darkly stirring thicket of black ilex, above which a towering oak looks down from its height and dominates the grove. Tantalid kings regularly inaugurate their reigns here, and seek help here in disasters and dilemmas. Here votive gifts are fastened: hanging up are bruiting trumpets and wrecked chariots, spoils from the Myrtoan Sea, wheels defeated because of rigged axles, and all the exploits of the clan. In this place is pinned the Phrygian cap of Pelops, here are spoils from his enemies and an embroidered cape from his triumph over barbarians. In the gloom is a dismal stagnant spring, oozing slowly in the black swamp…” (Fitch)

Here the description of the lofty palaces familiar to Roman citizens gazing up to the Palatine is combined with a metaphorical reading of those buildings as enclosing secret rituals, where power is exercised beyond the reach of the Forum or senate.

The excess in Senecan language and dramaturgy reaches a climax in this play. I would love to see a fully staged performance. The actors thought that it was a play which could be made effective with a wide soundscape and all the effects modern lighting could bring. In any event what we have on zoom is pretty fine.

I recommend you to watch it whether you know the play or not. There are cuts (most of the chorus) but the essence of the play is preserved and strongly projected.

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Thanks seneca for tipping us off to this. I enjoyed what you and Aetos had to say about the performance too. It seemed very successful to me, except for the displaced representation of the chorus but who knows what to do with choruses, Greek or Senecan? I’d guess it’s titled Thyestes because it’s he who cannibalized his children (the ultimate monstrosity) and Atreus has so many other associations, but who knows?
Like all Seneca’s tragedies it depends on the language for its effect, along with the imagined action that the words conjure up.