Reading Greek without hurting back and neck

Greek Learning Greek
1

This is a really dumb question, but I’m having trouble learning Greek without my back and neck hurting. I’ve tried having multiple book stands for text, commentary, translation, etc., but I find myself flipping so often between pages that it’s just too slow to pin the pages flat each time. Of course I have Perseus open at the same time.

The long-term solution is probably to get good enough that I don’t constantly have to look up idioms and vocab when reading a text (though maybe commentaries are more, not less, needed, with more challenging authors).

I’m sure other people have had this problem. What did/do you do?

Thanks!

2

I handle all the books I need on my computer

3

Here is my solution:

4

Constantinus - Yeah I’m one of those weird people who prefers physical books.

Randy - If only!!!

5

There is a real difference in those two ways of arranging books. When I used to use the great tome of LSJ to find words, I would often spend a few minutes lingering about on the page looking at a lot of other words. It is also much easier to keep the text in mind while reading a commentary if they are both there on the desk next to each other.

If you want to go above the desk space, the heaviest item, the lexicon can be mounted on one of these:

and lighter one’s on one of these:

which expands out to look like this:

If you still hand write things then a writing slope is much less stressful on your back than a flat desk:

Pretty much the hatchback model of Randy’s SUV above.

6

Well, exorcist, you’ve broached the dirty little secret none of us like to talk about: Greek is a pain in the neck. And I have to admit I resent the Greeks for making me feel like I was a barbarian living a useless life before becoming an Atticus.

But, seriously, I too have had neck and back issues for years due to being computer-bound most of the day long, since that was the nature of my work and now is the nature of my chosen post-retirement “hobby”. In my case, I have three interrelated issues: (1) Working first with a desktop and now with a laptop computer, I have struggled to find a good posture, chair setting (elevation and distance) and lighting, to avoid these problems. And while there’s plenty of free advice out there, my doctor and I agree that there’s no perfect solution that gets around the fundamental problem, viz., working with a computer for long stretches of time sucks for the body. (2) The “Greek problem” you raise. What is the best arrangement of computer and books (I use both) so that I’m not doing unnatural pretzel twists of my head, neck, shoulders and back. (3) I am surrounded by wives, doctors, health columns, and AARP literature warning me of the long-term health dangers of a too sedentary lifestyle, and I know they are right.

I have found compromises rather than solutions to these problems. To avoid the pretzel problem, I think ἑκηβόλος’s suggestions are excellent. I have considered and even shopped around for a standing desk (Varidesk is all the rage now), but the most recent research makes me dubious of the benefits, so I have held back on that idea for now. But the key idea seems to be to move around as much as possible. The free advice tells me, for example, to stand up at least once an hour and walk around a little, do some jumping jacks, stretch, etc. I do try to do that, though sometimes I have to tell that free advice “thanks, but get lost, I’m talking with Socrates right now”. Also, while more and more I use Logeion, I keep my LSJ and OLD tomes on a bookshelf about ten feet away and make myself get up and use them from time to time.

That’s the best I have been able to do. Your question is not a dumb one, and I’d be happy to hear suggestions from more of our fellow Greek slaves.

7

Hunting Jackals as the Cure to the Scholar’s Stoop

8

Hello ἑκηβόλος,
Do those mounts you picture have a name so I can google? I might use for one or two. I’m still in my thirties, so my back and neck are not too bad yet, my problem is rather that to stay on the right page I have to put my books open face down on the table. That’s not so much of a problem for decently bound old books, but newer paperbacks and (especially!) newer OCTs with their atrocious binding just can’t take it. I’ll probably need a new Herodotus OCT soon, because pages are already falling out.

9

what is OCT plz

10

AIDATA Desk Clamp Document Holder (BIG clamp for the LSJ)
Levo desk bookholder (several models - https://www.arthritissupplies.com and Amazon)

I personally have a goose-neck rather than hinged clamped holder for my tablet which if turned 90° can take small books, but it is currently in storage in the spare room. That is because a small bump to the surface it is clamped to causes amplified oscillations, which might be okay for watching movies, but are tiring to the eyes for reading. I used to have an extending arm with springs inside the frame for support. That was less versatile, but more steady. My lecturer for Homeric Greek had a solid and strong wooden desk stand for his LSJ. No versitility, but very “scholarly” looking.

11

Paul – Google for “Levo book stand”
Constantine – Oxford Classical Texts. Scriptorum Classicorum Bibliotheca Oxoniensis. Critical texts of the Latin and Greek classics.

12

Go to a bookbinder they can do wonders, I’ve been going to the same bookbinder for binding my unpublished books (when we had bookshelves for our own works rather than drop-boxes) and book repairs since the now manager was an apprentice. In fact, my father had his thesis bound at the same place a generation earlier.

Repairing books allows a book binder to use the skills they were trained in in a way that binding theses can not.

13

ἑκηβόλος - I really like that LEVO hands desktop book holder you posted, but unfortunately can’t find it anywhere online (discontinued?). Can you or someone suggest something like it?


Randy – I’m glad(ish?) that I’m not alone, and that it wasn’t a dumb question. Like you, I sit at a desk all day and then do Greek as a hobby. And like you, I try to take breaks and move about. I’ve tried a standing desk too. But like you said, it takes time to load a passage into my head, so there are times when I know I should get up, but I’m in a groove with Plato, so f-that. :slight_smile:

You’re right everything is a compromise; I just need a better compromise than I’m currently doing. I went through all of Mastronarde in two months, and by the end my neck and back hurt constantly.

14

Levo floorstand book / tablet holder from the arthritis supplies shop.

The Hold It - thinking gifts:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CtMFhkDpIjg

Actto (Korean brand) model number BST-22. This guy sound enthusiastic about his new acquisition:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fFpAYoJq7ug

15

I went through all of Mastronarde in two months, and by the end my neck and back hurt constantly.

Another option: Sue Mastronarde and then use the money to pay for a good physical therapist.

16

Ha! That’s always my initial thought – “Whom can I sue?”

17

I actually have used book binders. I once took my Oxford commentary of the Odyssey (vol 1) to this gentleman in his late 60s. He had a wonderful little work room near the center of Helsinki, with a nice display window with lots of nice stuff like old books, fountain pens, even vintage watches etc. When I entered the place, he was there in his impeccable lab coat and elegant spectacles, in the midst of his work room that was full of books and messy in a very classy way (probably deliberately so) - the sort of place you mostly see in old films, not in real life. He was there hanging out with a friend of the same age, and I had a feeling that he was at least half retired and being a bookbinder was no longer much more than a hobby and he was there mostly because he thought it was cool. Anyway, he took this book of mine, which has not very nice at all, being softcover and all (but it had Greek words in it, so I guess that might have made him at least a bit curious), and promised to mend it at a very good price, clearly less than what it should have been, given the work involved. Clearly he did the job mostly because he wanted to, being a bookbinder and all.

Anyway, when I came back to retrieve it, he had made an excellent job and had wrapped this not-so-nice paperback book of mine in silk paper to protect it, and gave me excellent advice on how to keep this book in good shape. (I didn’t really listen, but basically, to keep books intact you shouldn’t read them, or even better, never open them…) Little did he know that for me he was like a field surgeon, stitching my book back to life so that I can send it back to the front line! Now, several years later, his repair is still excellent. Unfortunately, later on I learnt that he passed away. He was some sort of personality in Helsinki (not very surprisingly, I’d say!) and there was an obituary in the local newspaper.

Since then, I’ve used another bookbinder, but this is a more serious business that sets their prices according to the strict rules of market economy and not their whim. They don’t wear fancy lab coats, not even spectacles. The problem with this more respectable but less classy book binder is that to repair a 40 euro book they probably take something like 80 euro, so it’s a bit difficult to convince myself that it’s worth it, especially as the white lab coat experience is not even included in the price.