Reading directly, without translating?

For some reason, Google doesn’t want me to see it. All I get is the snippet view. When will these people learn? :unamused:

To this I just want to quote Luigi Miraglia in his superb Cómo (NO) se enseña el latín:

El argumento más débil es aquel que consideraría al latín un instrumento único para el refuerzo de las capacidades lógicas, cuando no sólo otras lenguas modernas –el alemán, por ejemplo– podría surtir el mismo efecto, sino que, en el caso de que fuera ésta la finalidad de su enseñanza, se podrían sustituir las horas de latín con horas de lógica formal o de lógica matemática.

In English:

The weakest argument is that which would consider Latin as a unique instrument for reinforcing one’s logical habilities, when not only other modern languages —German, for example— could have the same effect, but, if this were indeed its pedagogical aim, one could substitute hours of Latin with hours of formal Logic or Mathematical Logic.

I would add that you could also substitute Latin with an education in Translation. But, that’s not what Latin is for, IMO. Here again, Luigi Miraglia:

quien no conoce el latín queda excluido de casi toda la transmisión cultural europea en el curso de los siglos en todos los campos, desde el derecho a la filosofía, de la medicina a la física, de las ciencias naturales a la teología.

In Barbarian:

He who does not know Latin is excluded from almost all of the transmission of european culture in the course of the centuries in all fields, from Law to Philosophy, from Medicine to Physics, from the Natural Sciences to Theology

Vale!

Is free reasonable enough?

Oh man! And I thought I was so clever to find my second-hand copy. I’ve searched for it on line, but I guess my last search was prior to its appearance.

The weakest argument is that which would consider Latin as a unique instrument for reinforcing one’s logical habilities…

Perhaps I was not as clear as I might have been. I don’t think that Bennett was trying to argue that translating at sight was the primary reason for learning latin, just that it provided a great benefit and was much better than learning to read at sight (at least in the earlier stages).

I’m not sure what my own opinion on this topic is worth, as I haven’t yet progressed in my studies to the point that I can really evaluate the merits of the different sides of the argument. I can say however, that Latin is a more strenuous logical workout than German (or French or Spanish). Even so, if that were the only reason to Learn Latin (or Greek), there are probably better ways to go. In any event, I thought it was an interesting perspective on the original post.

In Barbarian:

Dixit Visigothus! :wink:

DELENDUM EST

This thread is becoming difficult to follow…

I’m still finding it difficult to learn the declensions; I can write out the tables, but when they’re attached to words, I have to run through the whole table in my mind, figure out which case it is, translate the case into English (or Barbarian), and go to the next word. This process, as most of you can probably see, is tedious and quite ineffective. (Question implied in statement).

As I understand the argument, this is exactly the point. By translating at sight (rather than reading at sight), your mind is forced to run through these exercises in logic with each word. As you gain experience, the process becomes easier as the case, person, number, mood, tense, etc., come more quickly to mind. However, the logical workout is still there. As I pointed out earlier, my understanding is far from perfect.

I have assimiliated fully all of the simpler aspects of Greek grammar/syntax, but when I’m confronted with something a bit more challenging, I try a “martha” on it. For those of you who don’t know this game (which is probably all of you - it’s an obscure game), Martha is a game where one player starts with a little part of a scene (for example - somebody gets up and portrays a bouquet of wilted flowers), and then another player gets up an portrays another part of the scene (the girl who’s crying over the wilted flowers, then the broken glass beneath the flowers, then the mother who is trying to console the girl, etc etc).

So in relation to Greek (though I see no reason why this couldn’t be done with Latin as well), I take the words in the order they come, and try to fit them into my own mental Martha. For example, if the first word in the sentence is xhrhn (I am too lazy for unicode now), which is accusative for “widow”, I imagine a widow who is the receptor of an unspecified action. Then if the second word is blepw (“I see” in Greek), I then imagine the speaker seeing the widow. There, image formed. Since I visualized it in the order of the words in the sentence, I didn’t have to recourse to English at all. Of course, that simple a sentence I probably wouldn’t have needed to Martha to understand in Greek, but it gives you the idea. And slow and patient work will help everything!