Am I wrong in translating quotiens as everytime in this clause, which is the last of the sentence?
Quod quotiens hoc fecerat totiens alia nova capita videbat.
Because everytime he had done this he saw other new heads as many times.
Gratias vobis ago.
Hi Properti,
I think you can translate it this way, because it does show the correlation between the two actions: “everytime he did this, he saw…” which is another way of saying “as often as he did this , so often did he see…” . Also, I don’t know the context, but capita might be translated as people, where a part (of the body) is used to describe the whole. It’s known as synecdoche. But perhaps he was really looking at a bunch of severed heads!
I think this must be Hercules and the hydra!
I dont think “every time” works here. It surely reads very oddly with the correlative “as many times”.
I suggest “As many times as he had done this, so he saw many other new heads.” I think dropping the second limb of the correlative producers a smoother translation. No need to be literal. You could use every time instead of “as many times” but it has a more direct effect which is lacking in the Latin and it loses the effect of the head cutting being “numerous”.
You clearly know what it means how you express it depends on what effect you want to achieve in English.
I would go with however often
so: “Because however often he had done this, he saw that many new heads.”
I think this must be Hercules and the hydra!
Correct, Seneca. By the way, where is that story original from? My best guess would be Ovid’s Metamorphoses. Am I right or wrong?
Whoever wrote this latin may have simply relied on a greek text such as Apollodorus. Ovid’s version is much more subtle:
'cunarum labor est angues superare mearum,’
dixit ‘et ut vincas alios, Acheloe, dracones,
pars quota Lernaeae serpens eris unus echidnae?
vulneribus fecunda suis erat illa, nec ullum
de centum numero caput est inpune recisum,
quin gemino cervix herede valentior esset.
Book IX 67-72
Ovid in his typical manner introduces the Hydra in an encounter between Perseus and Acheloüs, the river god who also had the form of a snake. The latter fought with Hercules for Deianira, who was herself eventually the cause of Hercules’ death (See the Trachiniae of Sophocles). Acheloüs tells Perseus about the fight and reports Hercules’ speech which mentions the slaughter of the 100 headed Hydra. And now I have told you and if you tell someone else the mise en abyme will continue…
Whoever wrote this latin may have simply relied on a greek text such as Apollodorus. Ovid’s version is much more subtle:
'cunarum labor est angues superare mearum,’
dixit ‘et ut vincas alios, Acheloe, dracones,
pars quota Lernaeae serpens eris unus echidnae?
vulneribus fecunda suis erat illa, nec ullum
de centum numero caput est inpune recisum,
quin gemino cervix herede valentior esset.Book IX 67-72
Thanks, Seneca. I should have been more specific though. I meant whether if Ovid recounts all of Hercules’ twelve labors, and his whole life’s story at that too. And if not, from what source may one find the recounting of Hercules’ life?
Ovid in the metamorphoses is usually interested in finding a different angle on the well known myths and is of course primally interested in shape-shifting. This is why Hercules appears in a story related by Acheloüs (who has the form of a serpent and Bull as well as a river). Ovid isn’t that interested in the labours so he gives us the story Of Hercules fighting Acheloüs and that of Hercules and Deianira including the latter’s rape by Nessus. We then get to Hercules’ death and apotheosis. Ovid caps this with the story of his birth.
There are some allusions to the labours in Ovid’s Heroides IX (from Deianira to Hercules)
To find a systematic account of the labours you will have to look to Greek sources. Apollodorus “The Library of Greek Mythology” and Book 4 of Diodorus Siculus “Library”.
In Latin there is also “Ritchie’s Fabulae Faciles” which is available from Geoffrey Steadman’s site. (He describes it thus “This Latin text was first published by Ritchie in 1884 in a volume called Fabulae Faciles: A First Latin Reader. In 1903, John Kirtland published a revised edition entitled Ritchie’s Fabulae Faciles: A First Latin Reader. Kirtland modified Ritchie’s Latin text, added grammatical notes, and eliminated a section of drill exercises found in the beginning the original volume.”)
Your sentence in Ritchie’s version seems to me make more sense:
“Tum dextrā capita novem abscīdere coepit; quotiēns tamen hoc fēcerat, nova capita exoriēbantur.”
Incidentally now that we are all familiar with the R number in epidemiology if each decapitated head of the Hydra was replaced by two new Heads pretty soon the number of heads would grow (exponentially) and it really is a miracle that Hercules was able to master it. Perhaps Apollodorus in his version appreciated this and only gives the Hydra one immortal head and eight mortal heads.
More information can be found in this excellent little book : Stafford, Emma. 2012. Herakles. Gods and Heroes of the Ancient World. New York: Routledge.
Hail Hydra! Oops, did I say that at out loud, just forget I said it, but it’s always nice to see allusions to classical mythology even in the Marvel universe.
Many high school Latin textbooks include selections from Ritchie as a bridge on the way to reading “real” Latin authors. I have done both “Hercules” and “Jason and the Argonauts” many times with students, and even the students who would rather be sunbathing on the surface of the planet Venus than be in Latin find the stories entertaining. They are essentially a well done review of syntax in narrative format.