Paus. 3.14.10

This is Pausanias describing the rites which parties of Spartan youths put on:
ἐπὶ δὲ τῇ θυσίᾳ κάπρους ἠθάδας οἱ ἔφηβοι συμβάλλουσι μαχουμένους: ὁποτέρων δ᾽ ἂν ὁ κάπρος τύχῃ νικῶν, ἐστιν ἐν τῷ Πλατανιστᾷ κρατῆσαι τούτους ὡς τὰ πλείω συμβαίνει.
This is the closest I can get
At the sacrifice the youths put to fight trained boars to fight. Of (whom) whichever of the boars should by chance win, these overcome as the (things) in the-main happen.

I assume that ὁποτέρων refers to two parties of youths and κρατῆσαι τούτους refers back to them but I can’t quite get the sentence to connect up.

I assume ἔστιν for ἐστιν, maybe?

It also confused me at first. It may help to understand a comma after τούτους.

ἐπὶ δὲ τῇ θυσίᾳ κάπρους ἠθάδας οἱ ἔφηβοι συμβάλλουσι μαχουμένους: ὁποτέρων δ᾽ ἂν ὁ κάπρος τύχῃ νικῶν, ἐστιν ἐν τῷ Πλατανιστᾷ κρατῆσαι τούτους, ὡς τὰ πλείω συμβαίνει.

At the sacrifice the youths put to fight trained boars to fight. The owner of the one that happens to win there is able also to win at the Plane tree [some festival?], and that is what usually happens.

Impersonal ἔστιν means rather ‘it is possible’? (LS εἰμί VI)

As to Πλατανιστάς, LS chains it: Πλατανιστάς (= Doric for Πλατανιστής) > πλατανών > πλατανιστοῦς. It means ‘plane-tree grove’, here apparently a proper noun.

I was so focused on everything else that the the Plane tree grove dropped out - thanks for picking on that.
As to the rest it does get me much closer but I still have questions.
From the translation ὁποτέρων must connect to τούτους. I assume τούτους is accusative because it is part of an infinitive construction but why can’t it refer to the boars?
So ἐστιν + infintive means able to do x. Thanks to both of you for that.
In ὡς τὰ πλείω συμβαίνει I assume that the reader is expected to supply something after τὰ. What would that be?

Thanks again.

I think it’s like this:

At the sacrificial festival the ephors bring together boars who had become accustomed to combat: Of these, the boar that will win is the one that overpowers the others in the majority of encounters in the sacred grove.

I should think that τὰ πλείω means ‘mostly’, ‘generally’ or something to that extent.

It should be translated in a way that shows that there are two competing teams, as Daivid mentioned. “Which ones’ boar” isn’t good English, so it has to be opened: ‘the side/team whose boar’ uel sim.

οποτερων shows the ephebes are in two groups.
If there were only two ephebes we’d have ὁποτέρου and τοῦτον.
If there were more than two groups we’d have ὧν and τούτους.

“… and whichever group’s (οποτερων) boar wins, it generally (ως τα πλειω) turns out that this group (τουτους) prevails at the ’platanistas.’” It looks as if εστιν should be deleted.

And ὧντινων in place of ὧν could generalise it even more, I think.

But what does Pausanias actually mean here? Do they compete in many different places?

No, they fight, one side against the other, in the platanistas (the area ringed by plane-trees), after the preliminary boar-fight. It’s ritualized no-holds-barred preparation for their adult fighting lives as Spartiates.

I copied the Greek text from Perseus. I have found another version of the Greek text http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/history/tributes/pausanias/03_laconica.htm where εστιν has square brackets so it seems it must be a scribal error.

Thanks to everyone for clearing the fog.

Alternatively, as I have seen suggested, these rituals were later inventions which the Spartans of Pausianias’ time put on to keep Roman tourists visiting.

I see. Thank you. In other words, the result of the boar fight was considered an omen for the ephebes’ subsequent fisticuffs. The modern mind wouldn’t probably see much correlation between the two.

This is a tad strange as the link you provide uses the same edition (Teubner 1903) as Perseus.

Correlation: boars fight tooth and nail, the ephebes likewise. “Fisticuffs” doesn’t come close.

But I only butted in here to clear up the grammar for daivid after so much misdirection.

Couldn’t it be the other way around, that ἐστιν is being added to make the sentence more coherent? Finding the edition with it bracketed I would tend to read it as either demanding the ἐστιν or as having a superfluous ὡς — so if we want to keep the ὡς, we’d have to add the ἑστιν.

So either

ἐστιν/ἔστιν ἐν τῷ Πλατανιστᾷ κρατῆσαι τούτους, ὡς τὰ πλείω συμβαίνει
or
ἐν τῷ Πλατανιστᾷ κρατῆσαι τούτους τὰ πλείω συμβαίνει

If I interpreted mwh’s message correctly, »generally» is ὡς τὰ πλείω in the Greek, not τὰ πλείω. I’m yet to find this tricolic syntagm in dictionaries, but it may still be lurking somewhere.

That would clear it up. Thank you both.

LSJ ὡς:

e. in the phrases ὡς τὸ πολύ, ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολύ, Pl.R.330c, 377b; ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πλεῖον for the more part, commonly, “ὡς ἐπὶ πλεῖστον” Th.2.34; ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πλῆθος, ὡς πλήθει, Pl.R.364a, 389d; “ὡς τὸ ἐπίπαν” Hdt.7.50, etc.; “ὡς τὰ πολλά” Ael.NA12.17.

ὡς τὰ πλείω obviously belongs here, too.

As Hylander says.

A famous and still relevant section in Thucydides on how the meaning of words and moral judgment gets twisted in civil war includes this passage (3.83.1-3): Οὕτω πᾶσα ἰδέα κατέστη κακοτροπίας διὰ τὰς στάσεις τῷ Ἑλληνικῷ, καὶ τὸ εὔηθες, οὗ τὸ γενναῖον πλεῖστον μετέχει, καταγελασθὲν ἠφανίσθη, τὸ δὲ ἀντιτετάχθαι ἀλλήλοις τῇ γνώμῃ ἀπίστως ἐπὶ πολὺ διήνεγκεν· οὐ γὰρ ἦν ὁ διαλύσων οὔτε λόγος ἐχυρὸς οὔτε ὅρκος φοβερός, κρείσσους δὲ ὄντες ἅπαντες λογισμῷ ἐς τὸ ἀνέλπιστον τοῦ βεβαίου μὴ παθεῖν μᾶλλον προυσκόπουν ἢ πιστεῦσαι ἐδύναντο. καὶ οἱ φαυλότεροι γνώμην ὡς τὰ πλείω περιεγίγνοντο· τῷ γὰρ δεδιέναι τό τε αὑτῶν ἐνδεὲς καὶ τὸ τῶν ἐναντίων ξυνετόν, μὴ λόγοις τε ἥσσους ὦσι καὶ ἐκ τοῦ πολυτρόπου αὐτῶν τῆς γνώμης φθάσωσι προεπιβουλευόμενοι, τολμηρῶς πρὸς τὰ ἔργα ἐχώρουν.

“And it was generally those of meaner intellect who won the day.” (transl. C.F. Smith)

ως τα πλειω could more accurately be translated “more often than not.”

Thanks Hylander for unearthing the dictionary passage. I suppose there’s that much variation that even the LS cannot mention them all.