Ah,. Εὐχαριστῶ!
I need to give the dat. s. f. aor. mid. of καθίστημι. For the weak, I wrote down κατστησαμένῃ. I realized by the answer book that I should have remembered to put the alpha back in when tossing the augment, so the answer is καταστησαμένῃ.
The answer book did not give an answer for the second aorist. If there is one, would it be καταστημένῃ?
This is also confusing: I am supposed to give nom. pl. m. fut. mid. of εἰμί. Page 150 says there is a future middle. Page 219 gave an example of a present:
εἰμί pres. act. ὤν, οὖσα, ὄν
m./n. stem ὄντ-; dat. pl. οὖσι(ν).
That left me confused as to what stem to work with. The answer book worked with the future middle stem and wrote: “ἐσομενοι.” So I guess for the future middle of εἰμὶ that I work with the future on page 150 and ignore the stems on page 219?
The future is built on the future stem, the second principal part of any verb (hint: εἰμί only actually has the present and future stems). I don’t have this book, but it looks like 219 lists the present active participle, so you don’t want that for the future. Remember that for all practical purposes, εἰμί is irregular, and you just have to brute force memorize it.
Barry has given you good advice on this. Learning the paradigms is very important.
The future of εἰμί is given on p 150 and it only occurs in the middle. So as Barry says that is the stem to use to form the future middle participle.
You should look at the paradigm for εἰμί given on p. 442. (participles: ὤν, οὖσα, ὄν, ( fut.) ἐσόμενος, -η, -ον). Note that all the forms are present/future.
The verbs shown in the table on p 219 show active forms.
There is a lot of material to cover here. You have to get clear in your head the distinction between active and Middle/Passive participles.
Continue to ask questions and make mistakes it’s the only way to learn.
Let’s look at ἵστημι, στήσω, ἔστησα and ἔστην, etc to avoid the complications of the prefix.
"3. The Two Aorists of ἵστημι. The verb ἵστημι and its compounds have two aorists. The transitive, weak (first) aorist is causative in meaning and shares the transitive meanings of the present, imperfect, and future active. The intransitive, strong (second) aorist shares the intransitive or quasi-passive meanings of the present, imperfect, and future middle(/passive).
Ex. τοῦτον κατεστήσαμεν κριτήν. (trans. 1st aor.)
We appointed this man judge.
(We caused this man to be established as judge.)
οὗτος κριτὴς κατέστη. (intrans. 2nd aor.)
This man became (was appointed, was established as) judge.
There is no second aorist middle, but the first aorist middle is found:
οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι τὸν Δημοσθένη κατεστήσαντο στρατηγόν.
The Athenians appointed Demosthenes as general for themselves.
Note that the two third person plural aorist active indicative forms of ἵστημι are identical in appearance, though derived from different combinations of elements:
1st aor.: ἐ- + stem στησ- + tense vowel α + ending -ν → ἔστησαν
2nd aor: ἐ- + stem στη- + ending -σαν → ἔστησαν"
p 199-200
I hope this clears up the confusion?
Some verbs require an object in a certain case. ᾰ̓́ρχω requires a genitive. Since a participle is part verb, does ᾰ̓́ρχων require a genitive?
ᾰ̓́ρχω is often (but not always) followed by a genitive. The participle follows the same rules.
I am going back and reviewing the exercises I had trouble with. On page 442, the future: ἐσόμενος, -η, -ον. Is the first omicron part of the stem? Is it a theme vowel, which μι verbs usually do not take? Perhaps this is an exception?
This is a good question which I dont think I can answer. When I learned Greek I was prepared to accept that εἰμί was an irregular verb ( as it is in most European languages possibly because it is a very common verb and so changes quite dramatically because it is used so much- that was my explanation grounded in zero research!).
Breaking down the form ἐσόμενος we have ἐ-σ-ό-μενος. So clearly ό is not part of the stem because it comes after σ which signifies the future so it looks like ό is added to the tense stem ἐσ-.
I searched through CGCG and Goodwin but couldn’t find anything to help. I am sure one of our linguistic experts will be able to give you a more satisfactory answer.
In general you ask many more questions about how forms have arisen than ever I did when I was a student which is an excellent thing.
It’s not part of the stem. μι verbs are thematic in the future. The verbal stem of εἰμί is εσ-. The present is formed by compensatory lengthening: *ἐσ-μι>εἰμί (ει being a spurious diphthong). [This is sometimes called a root present because the tense stem is the unelaborated root, as with the root aorists you asked about before. Contrast reduplicated presents like δίδωμι.] For the future, you might expect ἔσσομαι with double sigma, which is in fact used in Epic and Aeolic. Attic simplified to ἔσομαι (cp. Epic μέσσος with Attic μέσος “middle”). The future ptcp is completely regular: ἔσ-ομαι—>ἐσ-όμενος, -η, -ον.
Thanks Phalakros - so the answer is “μι verbs are thematic in the future”.
I can see that I should have looked at CGCG 15.6. (the Active and middle future is always thematic.)
Good revision.
Yes, future passives too–in fact all future forms
Ah, the future is thematic. Εὐχαριστῶ!
That’s not entirely correct. ν + σ doesn’t always result in the lengthening of the previous short vowel, e.g. ποιμέν-σι = ποιμέσι
While, ντ, νδ, νθ + σ ALWAYS results in the lengthening of the previous short vowel, e.g. ανδριάντ-σι = ανδριᾶσι
In my post I didn’t say that νσ always results in compensatory lengthening (or whether the resonant or sigma will drop off). The question was about word final *ν(τ)ς such as in διδούς, πᾶς. It is possible to be even more precise if needed: *διδοντς>*διδονσς>*διδονς (geminate σ simplified in Attic)>διδούς.
Re ποιμέσι and other 3rd decl substantives in –ν: probably only an apparent exception. I’d think it would be explained by analogy. *ποιμnσι (zero-grade in dat pl) > *ποιμᾰσι (syllabic resonant vocalized to ᾰ) >ποιμέσι by analogy to rest of paradigm.