The first book really is for children. But with each book the language become more difficult as each book is basically written for a child the age of Harry Potter - so as Harry grows up so does her writing.
Nice way of putting it episcope! I very liked the last one (with exception of using capitals like she was a Roman). I shall buy the next one when it comes out. It might not be best literature, but it’s a Children’s book. ![]()
Well, I’ve never read the HP books before, because I don’t read many young adult/children’s books, and partly also because I find the marketing juggernaut surrounding the books repulsive. So I didn’t get the book because I thought some literary gem had been cast into Greek. I got it because I think it’s amusing and cool that it’s even possible for a modern book to be cast into Attic Greek, get published, and that people are buying it.
I have Winnie the Pooh in Latin. I’m not going to miss Harry Potter in Greek.
It arrived yesterday, while I was in Milwaukee reliving my youth at a Morrissey concert:
δούρσλειος καὶ ἡ γυνὴ ἐνῴκουν τῇ τετάρτῃ οἰκίᾳ τῇ τῆς τῶν μυρσίνων ὁδοῦ· ἐσεμνύνοντο δὲ περὶ ἑαυτοὺς ὡς οὐδὲν διαφέρουσι τῶν ἄλλων ἀνθρώπων, τούτου δ’ ἕνεκα χάριν πολλὴν ᾔδεσαν.
δούρσλειος καὶ ἡ γυνὴ ἐνῴκουν τῇ τετάρτῃ οἰκίᾳ τῇ τῆς τῶν μυρσίνων ὁδοῦ· ἐσεμνύνοντο δὲ περὶ ἑαυτοὺς ὡς οὐδὲν δαιφέρουσι τῶν ἄλλων ἀνθρώπων, τούτου δ’ ἕνεκα χάριν πολλὴν ᾔδεσαν.
Well, you just have to tell me what this means. You can’t just quote Morrissey in Ancient Greek and then leave it there . . . (and there’s a sentence I never thought I’d have to use).
Two can play at that game:
Tanto magis me praetermittis, quanto propinquius venio. tempus teris.
Eh, better break up long sentences or sp-ionic screws it all up and I can’t read long sentences
.
Well, you just have to tell me what this means. You can’t just quote Morrissey in Ancient Greek and then leave it there . . . (and there’s a sentence I never thought I’d have to use).
I think he might have been quoting someone else ![]()
Dursly and his wife lived in the forth house, that was in the road of Myrsinos (eh… already a word I don’t know… I’d better get my dictionary before I just start guessing…).
I think he might have been quoting someone else
Bah, one day I’m going to learn Ancient Greek. They say the syntax is considerably easier than Latin. Of course the vocabulary is a good deal more varied, but I might come to like that. I’m getting a bit tired of Latin words with 30+ meanings.
They do? Which particular they is this?
Of course the vocabulary is a good deal more varied, but I might come to like that. I’m getting a bit tired of Latin words with 30+ meanings.
Greek has some of that too, I’m afraid.
And my typos don’t help much. δαιφ‐ should be διαφ‐.
Originally, J. K. Rowlings couldn’t get her work published because it was considered awful. It did, eventually. And, like you stated above, were it not for the extensive marketing (plus a lot of horrible teachers), her books would never make it.
I have Winnie the Pooh in Latin. I’m not going to miss Harry Potter in Greek.
Children’s gems like Winnie the Pooh, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, etc., deserve to be translated into as many languages as possible, including Latin and Greek. But, J. K. Rowlings’ trash should be placed where trash belongs – in a garbage pit. The how-to-instructions of a prophylactic package has more literary merit than HP.
I am sorry if I’m coming across as sarcastic or pompous, William. That is not my intention. I sincerely believe that it is a mockery for anyone, especially a Classics professor, to subject the Greek language to trash. Don’t Classics professors have better things to do? Denniston must be rolling in his grave!
OK, let me have some more if you wish, William. ![]()
~PeterD
Well, you don’t seem sarcastic, and I was going to say you’re pushing hard on pompous, but really I find your objections mystifying. Greek is a language, not a person. I don’t think it worries about much, including being mocked. And if it has survived with its dignity and literary status intact in spite of the voyeuristic sadism and corpulent language of Nonnos’ Dionysiaca - all fourty-eight Freudian books of it - I doubt very much it is diminished by having the pedestrian prose of children’s fiction translated into it.
Don’t classical professors have better things to do?
Retired classical professors. And evidently not one of them.
– but, its users do.
I guess because I am of Greek heritage – both parents are Greek – maybe I worry a little more than others of things Greek.
And if it has survived with its dignity and literary status intact in spite of the voyeuristic sadism and corpulent language of Nonnos’ > Dionysiaca > - all fourty-eight Freudian books of it - I doubt very much it is diminished by having the pedestrian prose of children’s fiction translated into it.
Touche!
All right, I won’t let it get under my skin. Still, I can’t believe they chose Rowling over Dahl. ![]()
It’s not a project to traslate world’s great literary heritages into Greek, sort of. It was just a HP translation project.
I do wish “Old Possum’s Book of Practical Cats” were in Ancient Greek, (make it epic, if it be). And I wish I could someday read Chuangtzu in Ancient Greek. But there was no such attempt to translate them into AG. Even the original works of the Greek Authors are rare in the market. Because they just don’t sell.
It’s a pity the most selling Greek literature is a not so well written children’s phantasy. But if it is put in good Greek, then it’s a good chance for AG to attract audience. Then there is the Troy effect. And their synergetic effect could serve a good purpose, like Gollum did for the happy end of LotR.
Well, you should read the books before you criticise them. The first one was, well I think it was her first book. That it’s not expertly written is normally, but they do get better (well, ok, the fifth one wasn’t brilliant). They aren’t all that bad, and I think they are the best childrend’s books around at the moment. They are on par with Dahl, because people do like reading them and you don’t have to be 10 to like them (I’m adding that bit in case you then say: ah, but kids like the New Power Rangers. ONLY kids can enjoy that crap though
). At first they read like a Enid Blyton book and you think you’re going to be sick, but they do get better, much better. You can hype up a film or a book, but it normally won’t work if the film or book really is that terrible. I mean like Van Helsing for example. Everyone said it would be great, but it was crap and even though people did go to the cinema to see it they won’t be buying the DVD. If HP really was that bad, believe me, I wouldn’t have bothered to buy the next books. It’s not great literature, it’s a children’s book, and people can relate to Harry because they too are stuck in a school with some horrible Snape-like teachers (or am I the only one to be so lucky?).
And like Will said, I doubt the Greek language will mind
. It’s just for fun, you don’t have to read it if you don’t want to.
In my excitement I forgot to say: the print quality is very clear. It’s a nice Oxford style font, uses subscript rather than adscript iota (I had fears about this… it requires more space between lines for subscript), and otherwise seems to follow OCT conventions on punctuation and capitalization (lower case at the beginning of sentences in paragraphs; no quote marks).
But! But! Mingshey, you’re going to make my head explode for even saying that. How would you write Master Zhuang’s name in Greek? Or the Peng bird? Or poor, picked-on Hui-zi?
I can barely get Zhuangzi into English. Now I suddenly feel the urge to translate a passage or two of Inner Chapters into Greek.
I shall surely lose my mind.
Perhaps the turtle with his tail in the mud story is a good start…
I swear I read somewhere that Greek is somewhat easier to read than Latin.
Here, at the bottom of this page. I swear also that I’ve heard Latin syntax to be a good deal more complicated than that of Greek. Do the Greeks have long orationes obliquae with all verbs in the infinitive, and long nested sentences with relative clauses in unexpected places? I’m not too worried about strange constructions exactly, just surprising or unclear ones.
Bah, perhaps I’d be better off reading Beginner’s Greek Syntax.
EDIT: At that page I’ve just linked to, one teacher says:
““If our Latin teachers now unacquainted with Greek but realize that after the initial difficulty with the forms is got over – and this would mean in three or four months for the vigorous and capable mature student – Greek is far easier than Latin for most persons. Besides this, Greek is the language of a literature far superior to the Roman, and unsurpassed in masterpieces by the combined literatures of the world.”
Yes. Herodotus, after a few words of introduction, starts off his Histories with an extended oblique oration.
and long nested sentences with relative clauses in unexpected places? I’m not too worried about strange constructions exactly, just surprising or unclear ones.
Certainly long nested sentences, but I should say that I spend most of my time in poetry, where the lengthier syntactic apparitions are rare due to the meter. I gather Thucydides is capable of some remarkable constructions.
"“If our Latin teachers now unacquainted with Greek but realize that after the initial difficulty with the forms is got over – and this would mean in three or four months for the vigorous and capable mature student – > Greek is far easier than Latin for most persons. >
Huh. There’s a lot hiding under that “initial difficulty with the forms.”
Besides this, Greek is the language of a literature far superior to the Roman, and unsurpassed in masterpieces by the combined literatures of the world."
Ahh, unabashed, old-fashioned Hellenistic snobbery. It warms the heart. ![]()
Many Hebrew names are transliterated into Greek in Old and New testaments and see how Gongzi(or Gongfuzi) is wonderfully latinized as Confucius. One who deeply understands the nature of Greek (and of old Chinese)language would surely find a suitable transliteration for Master Zhuang. With my shallow understanding I have ζοαν ζου in mind, though. In Eastern Asian countries the chinese characters are adapted to each language and has independent pronunciation systems and Greek language could have it’s own adapted pronunciation if needed.
I can barely get Zhuangzi into English. Now I suddenly feel the urge to translate a passage or two of Inner Chapters into Greek.
I shall surely lose my mind.
Perhaps the turtle with his tail in the mud story is a good start…
Yeah, that would be the real problem. To convey the idea into another languages. There might be needed different versions to fill the gaps of each other translations.
William, now that you have had a chance to read some of the Greek Harry Potter, what do you think of it?
Is it suitable for a beginner (me) or does a person have to know Greek quite well to be able to enjoy it?
William, now that you have had a chance to read some of the Greek Harry Potter, what do you think of it?
Is it suitable for a beginner (me) or does a person have to know Greek quite well to be able to enjoy it?
Bert, honestly I’ve been preoccupied with other things since I got the book. Except for a few sessions of browsing, I’ve not had serious time with it yet. But it seems like regular, unaltered Greek in the style of Lucian: not too tricky, but not simpified or anything. The translator had to invent a lot of words, so you’ll need some confidence in analyzing compounds, instead of finding them in L&S.
But this info is based on the most cursory of glances. I can report more when I’ve had more time to look at it if you wish.