I had a great deal of fun in a Paideia course reading the Apocolocyntosis. Currently I’m finishing Nepos in my extra-curricular (=authors I don’t normally teach) reading, which I also found surprisingly interesting and enjoyable. Question, what next? I was thinking either of Aulus Gellius or Cicero’s letters, or perhaps some Seneca (particularly the De Clementia). But what would the Eruditi here suggest? Favorite author? Must read before death author? I’m regularly doing Caesar, Vergil and Ovid with students, so no need to mention them.
I would suggest Livy. I find his writing to be thoroughly enjoyable.
Hi Barry,
Here is Livy’s description of the destruction of Alba Longa:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0199%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D29
This should give you a good example of his style, his vividness of expression, and the passion with which he writes. I’m reading his account of the 2nd Punic War right now, having finished selections from the 1st decade, which covered the founding of Rome, the 7 kings and the Samnite Wars.
Way better than Caesar!
Two votes for Livy, oh my. I read Livy both as an undergrad and graduate school, not too taken with him at the time, but might now revisit him. Funny thing, in the textbook I’m using for my Latin 3 class, we are reading sections which purport to be adapted from Livy, but in the last reading two paragraphs were almost word for word cribbed from Nepos…
Since you mention it, Cicero’s letters. A treasure trove of interesting Latin style, Roman history, and humanity. Collectively probably more than one can read in a lifetime, but individually they allow for a “letter a day” approach. Outstanding editions by Shackleton-Bailey (and I’m sure others).
From what I’ve read, Livy did his best work with the early books (let’s say up to XXX). As he got older, the quality dropped off and he tended to verbosity. As to Nepos, I’ve never read him, but I understand he wrote simply and not very stylistically. I can’t determine whether Livy used him as source, but I suppose it’s possible. Livy would have been about 35 when Nepos died.
BTW, I know you were reading the Iliad prior to this and so have I been (albeit at a much slower pace). I’ve been using the red MacMillan with Page’s notes for the Aeneid. Reading the Iliad concurrently really helps me appreciate how much Vergil drew from Homer. A couple days ago, I had just finished Book 18 in the Iliad, where Thetis goes to Hephaestus and asks him to forge new armor for Achilles and then I turned to the Aeneid, where I’m presently at Book 8. Reaching line 370, I read that Venus, worried for her son, goes to her husband Vulcan to fashion armor for Aeneas and I was reminded why Vergil’s Aeneid receives as much praise as it does. Vergil takes the basic theme (new arms for the man)and develops it in a very different and sometimes much more Roman way. Hephaestus is repaying a debt, whereas Vulcan succumbs to his wife’s charms; Hephaestus has android helpers, Vulcan has the Cyclopes. Hephaestus’ home and forge presumably are on Olympus; Vulcan’s forge is situated on a volcanic island off Sicily. Achille’s shield has scenes from a relatively peaceful world , whereas Aeneas’ has scenes from Roman history. Achilles’ shield represents the peaceful life he has forsaken; Aeneas’ bears “the weight of history upon his shoulders”.
Anyway, it was an unexpected and pleasant surprise for me. I literally had just put down one book and picked up the other.
EDIT: Sorry, corrected to Aeneid to Iliad. (I was thinking of one of your other posts.)
All good suggestions.
Apuleius metamorphosis or just the cupid and psyche books are entertaining and one can engage as much or as little as one likes with the philosophy. I have only read parts of Lucan and keep promising myself that one day I will read it from beginning to end. Propertius is a great poet that I have never had much success in reading.
Seneca’s letters may change your life in a way that I dont think Cicero’s ever will. I have read many of them and they repay return visits. I am currently rereading Thyestes with Boyle’s excellent new commentary. Aetos said he was looking at this play too using Tarrant. I keep thinking of starting a thread.
That would be brilliant, Seneca! I would love to hear your thoughts, especially with a new commentary. I must say I’m quite happy with Tarrant, especially his presentation of the metre. For me, as a beginner in reading Senecan dramatic poetry, his introduction is very helpful. I should be finishing the Prologue/Act 1 tomorrow, presently working through the chorus. According to Schesiaro, “the allusive pattern which links significant moments of Thyestes to the Ovidian tale of Tereus and Procne (_Met._6.412-674) is crucially important”, so before moving on to Act 2, I think I will pay Ovid a visit.
Nice. However, you are ahead of me! I’m about halfway through 13. But similarly I Have found my reading of the Aeneid enriched. I keep saying to myself, “Why didn’t I do this years ago?”
From what I’ve read, Livy did his best work with the early books (let’s say up to XXX). As he got older, the quality dropped off and he tended to verbosity.
I’ve read (most of) the first decade of Livy and all of books 30-45. That was not my experience (nor have I ever heard that). What does vary significantly, of course, is the time period and nature of the history he’s writing about and the sources he used. And yes, with respect to Livy as recommended reading for Barry (or anyone else), I do think it’s important to be specific about which books (decades) you’re recommending.
Thanks, Randy. It was a bit presumptuous of me to not include books 30-45 in my recommendation. As far as Livy losing some of his eloquence in his later years, that comes from Niebuhr. Here is the comment from the Wikipedia article on A.U.C.:
The first and third decades (see below) of Livy’s work are written so well that Livy has become a sine qua non of curricula in Golden Age Latin. Some have argued that subsequently the quality of his writing began to decline, and that he becomes repetitious and wordy. Of the 91st book Barthold Georg Niebuhr says “repetitions are here so frequent in the small compass of four pages and the prolixity so great, that we should hardly believe it to belong to Livy…” Niebuhr accounts for the decline by supposing “the writer has grown old and become loquacious…”, going so far as to conjecture that the later books were lost because copyists refused to copy such low-quality work.[56][citation needed]
Although a “citation needed” marker has been added to this paragraph, I think we can certainly regard Niebuhr’s comments as a qualified observation.
So it’s safe to say that almost all of Livy’s books that have come down to us (except for the fragment from book 91) are probably worth reading.
EDIT: Update on the source:
https://archive.org/details/niebuhrslectures01niebiala/page/44
Does the book happen to be Latin for Americans?
I suppose I should have done that. I have only read book 1 entirely thus far and am halfway through book 2, but got sidetracked by Cicero. My favorite part of book 1 has to be his description of the attack on Tarquinius Priscus, love the way the wording is arranged in that. Makes me really appreciate the versatility of Latin word order.
Since you’ve been through the Apocolocyntosis you might try the Cena Trimalchionis. The little poems attributed to Petronius are nice too.
Also casting my vote for the recommended selections by Apuleius.
Best regards,
dp
Yes, quite perceptive. As for the Cena Trimalchionis, read that as an undergraduate. I would probably appreciate it much more now.
If I could vote twice, I’d cast one for Apuleius! He’s my go to guy for bedtime stories!
When I taught high school Latin that was the book the district used for my first 3 years. I would have preferred Latin Via Ovid. Latin for Americans reading selections in the early books were very disjointed in my opinion, especially having a passage associated with Colombos to introduce the dative case.
I only have ever used LFA2. It made the perfect second book at a time when I had a limited budget and an eclectic collection of textbooks. I like the Publius and Furianus stories, and surprisingly, so have my students. But I’ve now switched to Ørberg, and not sure what I will do with that.
Instead of choosing an author, choose a topic first, following your interests. If you’re interested in Roman architecture, take something like ‘De architectura’; if you like gardening, perhaps ‘De agri cultura’ or ‘Hortulus’; if you enjoy more recent philosophy, try something from Erasmus. It doesn’t always have to be golden or canonical. Read about what is compelling to you. And just have a great time!
I’ll give another vote for Erasmus, particularly Colloquia Familiaria - more specifically the Naufragium or Diversorium. So much fun!
My top suggestion by far would be Cicero’s correspondence. A world away from what he composed for publication. This is real Latin, and the real man.
Pliny’s letters are also well worth reading, but not spontaneous, and can’t compare with the Ciceronian correspondence (marvelously translated by Shackleton Bailey, as Randy mentioned).
Seneca’s letters are not real letters at all, but they’re a delight for those (like me) who relish his mannered style, another world away from Cicero.
By all means read a book of Livy. Much better than Caesar, as Aetos said. (Caesar’s good for beginners but not much else.) I’d recommend bk.9, with the non-battle of the Caudine Forks, a great piece of Livian writing. I’d have thought one book was enough, but if you must read more, bk.21 is historiographically interesting.
But I’m beginning to ramble. I didn’t mean to do more than put in a plug for the Cicero letters. Or break out of the rut: Statius, Claudian, neo-Latin ….