11. ἆρα οὗτος ζῶν ἦν, τοῦ βίου τοῦ Ὀλίβηρ Οὐένδελλ Ὅλμες ὄντος?
ἦν
12. ἐπὶ τῷ Πολέμῳ τῷ Ἀμερικανῷ Ἐμφυλίῳ, ἆρα οὗτος στρατιώτης ἦν?
συνῆκα. χάριν δέ σοι οἶδα.
οὐκ
13. ἆρα νομοθέτης ἦν ὁ ἀνὴρ τὸ ὄνομα οὗ οὐκ οἶδα?
ναὶ νομοθέτης
14. μετὰ τὸ τοῦ Ἀμερικανοῦ Ἐμφυλίου Πολέμου τέλος ἐγεννήθη οὗτος ὁ χριστιανὸς νομόθετης?
οὐκ ἦν
14α. ἐγεννήθη οὖν μετὰ τὸ ἔτος τοῦ 1841 ἀλλὰ πρὸ τοῦ ἔτους τοῦ 1865?
15. ἐν Αμερίκᾳ ἐγεννήθη?
οὕτος ἐγεννήθη πρὸ θανατοῦ τοῦ Ὀλίβηρ Οὐένδελλ Ὅλμες.
καί
Ὀλίβηρ Οὐένδελλ Ὅλμες ἐγεννήθη πρὸ θανατοῦ αὑτοῦ.
ἀρὰ εἰπόν ὅτι ἐγεννήθη μέτα τὸ ἐτὸς τοῦ 1841; δυνατόν εστι καὶ πρὸ τὸ ἐτὸς τοῦ 1841.
ναί
Gentlemen:
With sincere apologies for intruding on your thread, may I raise one question, and offer one suggestion?
(i) In English we can certainly say ‘the year of 1865’ (or whatever), but is that really a Greek idiom too?
(ii) Since this conversation is meant to be in some (albeit adapted) form of ancient Greek, should dates not use the system of numerical notation set out in Smyth, paragraphs 347-348A? Thus 1865 would be ͵αωξεʹ, with the lower Greek numerical symbol before the α (= 1000), and the higher Greek numerical symbol at the very end.
Would, therefore, τὸ ἐτὸς ͵αωξεʹ thus be better in this instance?
Best wishes,
John
I think that Greeks gladly used ordinal numbers for years. Datiuus temporis (for “when?”) seems common enough usage, though many different prepositions are frequently used, as well.
Counting the Olympiads (e.g. “in the third year of the hundred and twenty-sixth Olympiad”) would be very handy (starting as we know from the year 776 BCE) and cover almost the last 2800 years, but the problem is that apparently the Olympiad reckoning is only used from the 3rd century BCE onwards. Thus it won’t neatly do for Classical Attic. Classical Attics counted according to the ἄρχων ἐπώνυμος regnant (in Athens).
This doesn’t obviously work for modern times. However, we could use as referring points English monarchs, i.e. all the recent years for Elizabeth II. Thus we could reach the 9th century CE, starting from Egbert or Alfred. Roman emperors could be used until Romulus Augustulus’ reign ended in 476. The time in-between would then naturally be according to Byzantine rulers. But come to think of it now, maybe it would be best if the Byzantine imperium were the reference point until 1453, and only thereafter resort to English monarchs. The first one on that lineage would then be the last of the Lancasters, Henry VI.
It could be interesting to check how some suitable ancient writer refers to years.
In the main we have proceeded without the need for numbering years (even though I had to check on Wikipedia for when Oliver Wendall Holmes was born and died. The single of time Markos used numbers was to check there hadn’t arisen a misunderstanding between us. Clearly Arabic numbers are not Attic but they allowed a quick unambiguous check without resorting to English.
But any challenge on usage is always welcome - thanks.
16. ἆρα ἐγεννήθη οὗτος πρὸ τοῦ πρώτου ἔτους, τοῦ Ἰωάννου Τύλερος ὄντος τοῦ τῆς Ἀμερίκης Ἄρχοντος? (λέγω πρὸ τοῦ 1841?)
ναί
17. Ἕνρι Κλαῖ ἐστι?
18. ἆρα ὁ ἀνὴρ Ἰωάννης Κάλουν ἐστί?
οὐκ ἀλλὰ αὐτὸς ποτε ἦν στασιώτης σῦν τῷ Κλαῖ.
οὐ καὶ οὔποτε αὐτὸς ἦν στασιώτης σῦν τῷ Κάλουν.
τὸν Δανιὴλ Οὐέβστηρ ἔχεις σὺ ἐν νῷ?
οὐκ