# Lysias 12.37: I'm struggline with a translation **URL:** \ **Category:** Greek\ **Created:** [October 21, 2026, 5:45pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301 "2026-10-21T17:45:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/u/hlawson38)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 5:45pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/1 "2026-10-21T17:45:29Z")
> ἐγὼ τοίνυν, ὦ ἄνδρες δικασταί, ἠξίουν ἱκανὰ εἶναι τὰ κατηγορημένα: μέχρι γὰρ τούτου νομίζω χρῆναι κατηγορεῖν, ἕως ἂν θανάτου δόξῃ τῷ φεύγοντι ἄξια εἰργάσθαι. I’m unsure about the following, and fearful that I may have gone down a rabbit-hole in my effort to square up the translation. Starting at ἕως, I give my rationale with the trial translation: so far as the-things-done [εἰργάσθαι, infinitive with substantive force, neuter, plural, accusative/nominative, unsure about case] by the defendant [φεύγοντι, dative of the agent] seem [δόξῃ, singular verb to agree with neuter plural εἰργάσθαι] worthy [ἄξια, neuter, plural to agree with the infinitive] of death [θανάτου] ---
**Author:** ![bedwere](https://www.textkit.com/user_avatar/www.textkit.com/bedwere/32/35_2.png) [@bedwere](https://www.textkit.com/u/bedwere)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 6:07pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/2 "2026-10-21T18:07:17Z")
I therefore, gentlemen jurors, deemed the accusations to be enough: for I think one needs to be accusing up to the point at which it seems to the defendant to have committed things worthy of death. ---
**Author:** ![hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/u/hlawson38)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 8:35pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/3 "2026-10-21T20:35:13Z")
Many thanks to bedwere for the coaching! ---
**Author:** ![mwh](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@mwh](https://www.textkit.com/u/mwh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/4 "2026-10-21T22:08:54Z")
I’d say [εἰργάσθαι](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=ei%29rga%2Fsqai&la=greek&can=ei%29rga%2Fsqai0&prior=a)/cia) is perfect passive here, not middle as bedwere apparently takes it. So I agree with you, Hugh, in taking [τῷ](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=tw%3D%7C&la=greek&can=tw%3D%7C0&prior=do/ch%7C) [φεύγοντι](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=feu%2Fgonti&la=greek&can=feu%2Fgonti0&prior=tw=%7C) as dative of agent. It’s the jury that Lysias is out to persuade that the defendant deserves the death penalty, no matter what the defendant might think. ---
**Author:** ![DavidCart](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@DavidCart](https://www.textkit.com/u/DavidCart)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 10:28pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/5 "2026-10-21T22:28:37Z")
> [@hlawson38](#): > > ἐγὼ τοίνυν, ὦ ἄνδρες δικασταί, ἠξίουν ἱκανὰ εἶναι τὰ κατηγορημένα: μέχρι γὰρ τούτου νομίζω χρῆναι κατηγορεῖν, ἕως ἂν θανάτου δόξῃ τῷ φεύγοντι ἄξια εἰργάσθαι. Agreed. “until things worthy of death appear to have been done by the defendant”. (Goodwin 1186. “the dative sometimes denotes the _agent_ with the perfect and pluperfect passive, rarely with other tenses”). It’s natural to assume initially that δοξη τω φευγοντι go together, but they don’t. And maybe make μεχρι τουτου νομιζω a present perfect = “up to this moment I have been thinking” ---
**Author:** ![mwh](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@mwh](https://www.textkit.com/u/mwh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 11:03pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/6 "2026-10-21T23:03:21Z")
No, μεχρι τουτου νομιζω doesn’t mean “up to this moment I have been thinking.” μεχρι τουτου merely anticipates the [ἕως](https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=e%28%2Fws&la=greek&can=e%28%2Fws0&prior=kathgorei=n) clause, while νομιζω is a straightforward present (“I think” or “in my view”), as often. He hasn’t changed his mind! ---
**Author:** ![hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/u/hlawson38)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 11:52pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/7 "2026-10-21T23:52:09Z")
For me this was a difficult construction. I’m delighted that my effort (so far) has survived critique. Thanks to all! ---
**Author:** ![mwh](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@mwh](https://www.textkit.com/u/mwh)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 12:46am UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/8 "2026-10-22T00:46:18Z")
Sorry Hugh we’re not quite done yet. As perhaps you now understand, εἰργάσθαι does not have substantive force but is simply an infinitive governed by δόξῃ. θανάτου, emphatic by its fronted position, is a regular genitive with ἄξια, which is nominative. There’s really nothing particularly difficult about the syntax or the word order, but (as always with Lysias) it’s worth seeing how it’s all constructed, smooth yet pointed. ---
**Author:** ![hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/u/hlawson38)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 2:06am UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/9 "2026-10-22T02:06:05Z")
EDIT: I hope this question is clear. I have got myself confused. ἕως ἂν θανάτου δόξῃ τῷ φεύγοντι ἄξια εἰργάσθαι. In translating, from what word do we get the “things” that are “worthy of death”? Does ἄξια include the “things” in “things worthy”? ---
**Author:** ![mwh](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@mwh](https://www.textkit.com/u/mwh)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 1:43pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/10 "2026-10-22T13:43:26Z")
Yes, θανατου αξια “deserving-of-death (things),” “death-penalty-worthy deeds”—neut.pl. adjective without article as in e.g. κακα ειργασθαι δοκει “crimes seem to have been committed.” ---
**Author:** ![hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/bb73d2/32.png) [@hlawson38](https://www.textkit.com/u/hlawson38)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 2:32pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/lysias-12-37-im-struggline-with-a-translation/31301/11 "2026-10-22T14:32:42Z")
Many thanks. Very helpful.