hi again textkit,
my tutor wants me to write passages in latin. is there any books or resources out there which would help in latin composition? i was thinking about de bello galicia (caesar) although it recommends one has finished vol 1 of lingua latina before tackling it whereas im only less than half way through it.
thanks for your help.
little flower.
Hi
North and Hillard Latin prose composition might be useful, but you would need some guidance in what parts to tackle.
Have you been trying “Exercitia Latina” which accompanies Lingua Latina? You could use those exercise as models and invent your own. There is also “Colloquia Personarum” in which dialogues are given tied to each chapter of lingua latina which could also be used as models.
I wonder why your tutor has not recommended a suitable text, especially as the tutor has asked you to start composition? I would ask for some direct advice.
I would be interested to know about your experience of learning Latin through Lingua Latina as I am thinking about using in a course this autumn.
hi seneca2008
thanks for your suggestions. i have been using lingua latina for about 13 years (on and off) with a tutor and on my own. it really needs additional extra help whether with a group or tutor. there are many facebooks groups such as the one i am using myself at the moment which is dedicated to speaking latin and ancient greek(latin and ancient greek chat)they meet four times a week having about twenty members on weekend but less during the week. there is also a lingua latin group on discord which i found recently but i havent had time to investigate it yet.
there are also newer groups in the states and europe who specialise in using latin as a living language (eg. paideia, and novum vivarium if my spelling is right.)
best of luck with your endevours.
just one additional point. my tutor at the moment (javier from spain) has set up his own website called vivavoce. he spent many years teaching latin in england. maybe you could have a chat with him before you start teaching.
little flower.
If you don’t mind my chiming in, I changed to Ørberg two years ago. So far, it has been a success. As an old grammar translation guy, I appreciate the grammar sections as well as the surprisingly engaging stories. My students at all grade levels enjoy them (and I teach 7th through 12th starting with that text). It’s also can be used quite flexibly. I use a mixture of translation and sight drills and worksheets, along with some spoken, to give a variety of interaction with the Latin, and none of the kids have done poorly. What course will you be using it for?
Thanks for your post Barry. I have been asked to run a beginners Latin course at the local U3A (university of the third age) where I already organise a chamber music workshop. So the course will be aimed at adults.
Assuming that everybody is a beginner I was intending to start at chapter one of Lingua Latina and combine reading that with the exercises and dialogues. I have read almost to the end of Famila Romana and will finish off the last three chapters when I can find time. I am not particularly interested in speaking latin except in as much as it could help in the learning process but I think acting out the dialogues might be fun. I have to confess I hugely enjoyed the spoken dialogues in Familia Romana itself, acting out the different parts for myself. Whether they bear a second reading I will no doubt discover in due course.
I am not sure how far people will get on one class a week but I guess there is no rush and if we dont finish the whole book in one year then I guess we can just pick it up again next year.
I can see kids would like Lingua Latina’s approach. I am sure they can identify a little at least with school children behaving badly. I did find some of the story line a little over sentimental in a way that I dont think reflects surviving literature. But grumbling slaves and non payment of school fees seemed all very Plautine.
So I will be led to certain extent by what the class wants, assuming of course that anyone signs up in these uncertain times especially as the Uk seems to be aiming to get the world record for the number of new daily infections. If it does go ahead you can be sure I will be asking for help and advice from those who have more experience in using these materials.
Little flower
Thanks for the information in your post. I can see you have had a long experience with Lingua Latina. It seems that you have a keen interest in speaking ancient languages. That I think must be quite hard and not something that really attracts me, although I love the sound of Latin and Greek and enjoy reading aloud and listening to others reading.
I hope you manage to sort out with your tutor what precisely he wants you to do by way of latin prose composition. I think its an important part of learning latin and much more important than translating from latin into one’s native language. Best of luck and keep us posted about you are getting on.
15 Jan 2020 — Average age 73.6 years (U3A members)
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Anyway, good luck. Am just finishing Cap XXXIII - struggling a bit with Gerund/Gerundive - but hope to finish the last chapter in another month or so.
Question is: what then? Am tempted to go onto Roma Aeterna - but my heart thinks when I look at the earlier chapters of Familia Romana, some of which seem strangely unfamiliar 
. Hence: Revision, revision - perhaps using Wheelocks, with greater emphasis on grammar explanations?
The older you get the more likely you are to live longer especially if you are active! I was very surprised to hear from a viola player in my chamber music workshop that she was thinking of retiring this year as she would be celebrating her 90th birthday, I though she was at least 20 years younger than that.
The first chapters of familia Romana seem very easy and I suspect people go through them too quickly. In any event I think that constant revision and rereading of the earlier material is important. You should be able to explain everything in a chapter before you move on to the next. Did you work through the exercises (Exercitia Latina I) and the dialogues? Also “A Companion to Familia Romana” is very helpful.
I think it would be counterproductive to use Wheelock. Anything that encourages translation form Latin to English is to be avoided or learning Grammar for its own sake. What I find attractive about Lingua Latina is that you see lots of examples in reading of the grammatical points you are asked to learn so you almost learn them without notice. I find discussions about, for example, what sort of dative something is fairly unhelpful. You need to see the different ways the dative can be used in context. As you have been introduced to a fair amount of grammar already perhaps something like "A New Latin Syntax " by Woodcock would be interesting and useful - although there are several pages on the dative there! I also think that prose composition is helpful so looking at North and Hillard would be good for that. Once you are satisfied that you understand the material in F. R. you can make a selection from Roma Aeterna. I dont think its necessary to read all of it unless the selections interest you. But you have to learn the rest of the grammar that is contained in the earlier chapters.
Having said all this I am no expert on this material! A certain amount of rote learning is unavoidable unless you are going to be tied to Logeion or the Perseus word tool for ever. When I was at school we were expected to know all the conjugations and declensions and stand up and recite them on demand . We had a Polish Latin teacher who had spent the Second World War in a German POW camp and he terrified us, so most of us learned a lot. The better you were at Latin the less slack he cut. I dont intend to follow in his footsteps. 
As I see a slight topic drift, I add this.
For memorizing paradigms, I suggest choral practice and choral response.
Choral practice example: the pupils chant a paradigm in time, as in singing. The teacher controls the timing to allow a brief interval between each element. e.g. amo, amas . . .
Choral response: the teacher poses a question, enforces a brief silence, and the pupils all-together call out the response. e.g. What number is amant?
The purpose of the silence is to let the pupils search memory for the answer.
I would pay to sit in a 30-minute choral practice session twice weekly. I dread solitary memorizing.
Thanks, seneca for your comments. I hadn’t actually looked at Roma Aeterna, but now see that’s probably not quite what I need at this stage. As you rightly say the first FR chapters seem very easy and people, incl. myself, tend to go through them too quickly.
I think I shall continue revising FR and also concentrate more on Colloquia Personarum, Fabulae Syrae, Ritchie’s Fabulae Faciles and Ad Alpes interlinear. There’s also a fully parsed version of Caesar’s de bello gallico. While FR provides sufficient grammar exercises (esp. in Exertitia Latina) imv it is short on explanation. For that I shall turn to the relevant chapters in Wheelocks, Allen & Greenough as well as Moreland & Fleischer. I have got the North & Hillard Latin Prose Composition, but haven’t felt confident enough to make a start on that.
The Companion to FR I find less helpful whenever I need additional information to what is provided in FR and Latine Disco. Also, there is only a key for the Exercitia Latina exercises but not the dialogues.
Apologies to Little Flower for butting in on your thread like this.
@Pianophile thanks for your further post.
Are you using Jeanne Marie Neumann’s companion to Familia Romana? That is much more helpful than Lingua Latina: Pars I: Latine Disco: Student’s Manual.
If you read an interlinear you will undo all the good work that you have done in reading Familia Romana. Fr provides an excellent opportunity to read Latin as Latin without translating. I suggest instead of looking for new materials try to master the ones you have. If on re-reading FR there is something you dont understand or if the Companion isn’t clear to you just ask here. I am not sure why you would need a key to the dialogues (Colloquia Personarum), but they seem an excellent supplement.
Dont forget to set yourself vocabulary tests and test yourself on accidence too.
@Hugh I am sure there is a group learning their accidence that way. It wouldn’t work on Zoom unfortunately because the lags are too great, that at least was my experience of trying to play with someone virtually. Maybe you need to start a group!
@little flower
This thread has somewhat blossomed and I am grateful for your post. I too hope you don’t feel we have derailed your thread.
Thanks, seneca, for your response. I do use the Neumann Companion to FR - which provides a lot of additional material but, as already mentioned, does not provide substantially more grammar explanations than Latine Disco.
By key to the Dialgues I had meant the Questions in Exercitia Latina which does not provide any of the Answers (sorry, my bad). Obviously, the Colloquia Personarum don’t need a key.
I take your point about interlinear and am in fact in two minds about that. I may well drop the idea and make a start on Roma Aeterna instead while revising FR. Anyway, at least a couple of months to go before reaching the end of FR - only to start all over again?
I have found some songs which you might find helpful. You could sing along with the sound track!
All the answers are provided in “Lingua Latina: Teacher’s Materials and Answer Keys” available here https://www.hackettpublishing.com/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata-series/lingua-latina-teacher-s-materials-and-answer-keys
Anyway, at least a couple of months to go before reaching the end of FR - only to start all over again?
Revision is an essential part of learning Latin and probably everything. (In music we call it practising ). Maybe you dont have to start again at the very beginning and why wait until you have finished before going back?
There is also I see an online version for $40 for a year: "Familia Romana Essentials Online offers an electronic version of the complete text of Familia Romana in eBook format with auto-correcting exercises, the complete text of Exercitia Latina I with auto-correcting exercises, audio recordings from the text for pronunciation and listening comprehension practice, flashcard sets for vocabulary practice, a searchable Latin/English glossary that includes all vocabulary from Familia Romana, the text of Ørberg’s student manual Latine Disco, and more. "
https://www.hackettpublishing.com/lingua-latina-per-se-illustrata-series/familiaromanaonline
I would be interested to hear from anyone who has used this.
Finally there are some resources here:
Perhaps we ought to have a board in latin textbooks for Linuga Latina? I think Latin For Beginners by D’Ooge is hopeless and there have been no posts in M&F’s Latin: An Intensive Course since October and only 4 posts in total last year.
Seneca, many thanks for the link - probably the answer to my prayers!
Have enrolled and looked at the lessons. Excellent audio and everything working fine. Feeling much more positive now!
First impression: The macrons are mandatory and a bit fiddly to do, but you’ve just go to get used to it. Also, if you are a pen and paper chap like me and who likes to work with a physical book to annotate and highlight things I wonder if a total beginner would be happy using this method. But I still think this way of learning has many advantages which outweigh these very personal minor quibbles. As for revising LLPSI - it’s a no-brainer.