JWW LXXVIII

Greek Learning Greek
1

At my stage I can’t do “translation” into Greek. These exercises check whether I can use the proper forms and syntax, within the limits of what White’s First Greek Book has presented up to this point. Not creative and surely of no great interest to anybody but me.

Still, I hope for your corrections.

  1. (JWW hints in parentheses)
  2. They said that the generals knew this.
  3. Be assured that they will follow you.
  4. They were standing among the trees.
  5. Whether, then, I should do what is just (just things), I do not know.
  6. I am not willing to go, fearing that he may take me and inflict punishment on (me).

1. ἔφασαν τοὺς στρατηγοὺς ταῦτα εἰδέναι.
2. εὖ ἴστε ὅτι ἕψονται ὑμῖν (Anabasis 3.1.36)
3. ἐν τοῖς δένδροις ἵστασαν.
4. πότερον δὴ τὰ δίκαια ποιήσω, οὐκ οἶδα.
5. οὐκ ἐθέλω ἐλθεῖν, δεδιὼς μὴ λαβών με δίκην ἐπιθῇ

2
  1. ἕστασαν, I’d think.

unless…ἐν τοῖς δένδροις ἵστασαν δένδρα τοῦ Χριστογεννήτου (φυτεύοντες)

  1. Is from Xen.An.1.3.15 (all of them are from the Anabasis somehow or other, of course). There it’s “εἰ” because he’s expressing some doubt whether he’ll fail to do right (though he is trying to).

The πότερον question is more like “I don’t know which I’m going to do good (or bad).” (Followed by a Joker/Twoface evil cackle, I assume.).

At least that’s what it sounded like to me. I could be wrong.

3
  1. ἕστασαν, I’d think.

unless…ἐν τοῖς δένδροις ἵστασαν δένδρα τοῦ Χριστογεννήτου (φυτεύοντες)

It looks like I haven’t got “standing” straight in Greek.

What I now see in the Oxford Grammar of Classical Greek (p. 86) is that the forms to use for the state of standing (be in a standing position) are the perfect, the pluperfect, and the second aorist. For future: ἐστήξω.

“They were standing among the trees” should be (you’d think): ἐν τοῖς δένδροις ἕστασαν, with the pluperfect.

Now I have more questions:

  1. What difference is there in the meaning of ἕστασαν (pluperfect) and ἔστησαν (aorist)? The JWW sentence calls for an imperfective aspect; does the pluperfect here equal imperfect, since the perfect equals present? How would an aorist form of this verb be used?

  2. The semantics seems to be “I have stood up (got to my feet)”=“I am standing.” Does that still work for things that don’t have feet and don’t get up, like the trees in your joke? (And of course I didn’t really get the joke.)

Thanks for this, I am learning!

4

My (poor) joke was that they were among the trees setting up (planting) Christmas trees.

χθές δὲ εἶδον δένδρον μόνον ἑστὸς παρὰ τῇ ὁδῷ. Yesterday I saw a tree that stood alone by the road.

καὶ μετὰ χρόνον οὐ μακρὸν ἐκεῖ οὐκέτ᾽ εἱστήκει τὸ δένδρον, κατέκοψα γὰρ αὐτόν. After after a bit, it no longer stood there, for I cut it down.

τοῦτον δὲ κορμὸν Γελὸν ἄγοντες οἴκοσε ἐστήσαμεν τὸ δένδρον ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ. Bringing that Yule log home, we stood up the tree in our house.

ἐσταθὲν μὲν πάλιν γέλοιον φαίνεται ἀρτηθέντων αὐτοῦ λύχνων. Stood again it looks jolly with lights hung from it.

ἔστημεν δὲ ἡμεῖς ἐπιβλέποντες αὐτὸ χάριν ἔχοντες. And we stood and looked at it with gratitude.

οὕτω δὴ ἤκουσάς μου τὸν μῦθον τοῦ δένδρου ἑστῶτος ἐν τῇ ἡμῶν οἰκίᾳ. And so you’ve heard from me the story of the tree that stands in our home.

καὶ τὸ τῷ ἵστημι χρῆσθαι ἔχεις. And you have the use of “ἵστημι”.

(Hopefully I didn’t make too many blunders, of course.)

  1. What difference is there in the meaning of ἕστασαν (pluperfect) and ἔστησαν (aorist)?

3rd person plural has an unfortunate collision here:

ἔστησαν is either 1st aorist (ἔστησα, ἔστησας, ἔστησε, ἐστήσαμεν, ἐστήσατε, ἔστησαν), or 2nd aorist (ἔστην, ἔστης, ἔστη, ἔστημεν, ἔστητε, ἔστησαν)

But the short rundown of the tenses is that perfect/pluperfect/aorist for the “I am standing up on my own two feet” work like with other verbs in Greek. Perfect = state (I am standing), pluperfect = state in past time (I was standing), aorist = action (I stood). Obviously they bleed into each other a bit, and the difference really depends whether it’s an act or state in the author’s mind:

ἐπεὶ δὲ ἀνέβη καὶ ἔστη ἀποβλέπων ᾗπερ ἔμελλε πορεύεσθαι, βροντὴ δεξιὰ ἐφθέγξατο…
And when he went up and stood, looking upon the route he meant to go, thunder sounded at his right…

καὶ στήλη ἕστηκε παρὰ τὸν ναὸν γράμματα ἔχουσα· ΙΕΡΟΣ Ο ΧΩΡΟΣ ΤΗΣ ΑΡΤΕΜΙΔΟΣ…
And a stele stands before the temple bearing the words: THIS LAND IS SACRED TO ARTEMIS…

  1. The semantics seems to be “I have stood up (got to my feet)”=“I am standing.” Does that still work for things that don’t have feet and don’t get up, like the trees in your joke? (And of course I didn’t really get the joke.)

It’s just the difference between transitive forms (a crane stands up a flag pole, pg. 84 in your grammar), and intransitive (a statue stands somewhere, pg. 86).

5
  1. Whether, then, I should do what is just (just things), I do not know.
  1. Is from Xen.An.1.3.15 (all of them are from the Anabasis somehow or other, of course). There it’s “εἰ” because he’s expressing some doubt whether he’ll fail to do right (though he is trying to).

Yes, most of the exercises are based on something that can be found in the Anabasis, usually with modifications. This has the advantage of keeping the Greek authentic, and perhaps provides some context. An isolated sentence can often be interpreted in different ways, and you end up picking apart the possible meanings of the English instead of working on the Greek.

Your version of (4) is certainly more natural than mine. Part of the problem is the “should,” which probably needs to be construed in the English of a Harvard professor in 1896.

But I can’t find anything like this in Anabasis 1.3.15. Could you please check the reference or quote the sentence you had in mind?

Thanks!

6

Sorry, typo. 1.3.5.

εἰ μὲν δὴ δίκαια ποιήσω οὐκ οἶδα, αἱρήσομαι δ᾽ οὖν ὑμᾶς καὶ σὺν ὑμῖν ὅ τι ἂν δέῃ πείσομαι.