# John 1:16

**URL:** <https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055>\
**Category:** Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek\
**Created:** [June 4, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055 "2023-06-04T04:50:45Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![CMatthiasT88](https://www.textkit.com/user_avatar/www.textkit.com/cmatthiast88/32/195_2.png) [@CMatthiasT88](https://www.textkit.com/u/CMatthiasT88)\
**Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 4:50am UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055/1 "2023-06-04T04:50:45Z")

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> ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ πληρώματος αὐτοῦ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἐλάβομεν, \> _καὶ χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος·_ \> -Nestle.John.1.16

Hello, in what sense do you understand _καὶ χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος_?

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**Author:** ![katalogon](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@katalogon](https://www.textkit.com/u/katalogon)\
**Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055/2 "2023-07-01T22:56:11Z")

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[https://www.academia.edu/2402209/CONTINUITY\_IN\_DISCONTINUITY\_χάριν\_ἀντὶ\_χάριτος\_IN\_THE\_GOSPEL\_OF\_JOHN](https://www.academia.edu/2402209/CONTINUITY_IN_DISCONTINUITY_%CF%87%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%BD_%E1%BC%80%CE%BD%CF%84%E1%BD%B6_%CF%87%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82_IN_THE_GOSPEL_OF_JOHN)

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**Author:** ![katalogon](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@katalogon](https://www.textkit.com/u/katalogon)\
**Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055/3 "2023-07-02T00:53:03Z")

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I had a look in my copy of Robertson, “A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research”, 1934 to see if he had any thoughts on this usage of ἀντί.

On page 574, he says he likes Winer’s analysis on page 364 (of Winer).

I found the seventh edition of “A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament”, Winer, 1883

online at [archive.org](http://archive.org)

[https://archive.org/details/grammarofidiomof00winerich/page/n5/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/grammarofidiomof00winerich/page/n5/mode/2up)

On page 364, Winer argues that the meaning is:

“grace _in the place of_ that which preceded, therefore grace uninterrupted, unceasingly renewed.”

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**Author:** ![jeidsath](https://www.textkit.com/user_avatar/www.textkit.com/jeidsath/32/3_2.png) [@jeidsath](https://www.textkit.com/u/jeidsath)\
**Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055/4 "2023-07-03T00:49:29Z")

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Did John the Baptist know his Euripides? χάρις γὰρ ἀντὶ χάριτος ἐλθέτω.

One possibility that occurred to me: we have received a favor in return for an act of grace (Jesus’ gift of himself on the cross). But I find this too awkward. Similarly awkward is the “to replace” suggested above, though the giving of the law in the next verse does suggest it.

What I think most likely is that we have received a favor in return for the favor that Jesus found before God (ie., the second χάριτος hinting at the frequent LXX usage, ie.: Νωε δὲ εὗρεν χάριν ἐναντίον κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ).

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**Author:** ![mwh](https://www.textkit.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@mwh](https://www.textkit.com/u/mwh)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://www.textkit.com/t/john-1-16/20055/5 "2023-07-05T22:36:02Z")

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I understand it as χαρις replacing χαρις (ordinary meaning of αντι), the idea being that there’s an inexhaustible supply of χαρις, constantly being replenished. That accords with the imagery of a πληρωμα, a plenum: it’s full, and remains full however much is taken from it (cf. the ocean). What it’s full of is, of course, χαρις (and truth): 14 & 17.

It all seems pretty straightforward. Cf. Ov.AA3.90 mille licet sumant, deperit inde nihil.