Il. 2.711-712 and 2.804

οἳ δὲ Φε?ὰς ?νέμοντο πα?αὶ Βοιβη?δα λίμνην
Βοίβην καὶ Γλαφ??ας καὶ ?ϋκτιμένην Ἰαωλκόν
2.711-712

Why is there no conjunction between these two lines linking the objects Φε?ὰς and Βοίβην?

ἄλλη δ’ ἄλλων γλῶσσα πολυσπε?έων ἀνθ?ώπων

is ἄλλη predicative in this sentence, and does ἄλλων modify πολυσπε?έων ἀνθ?ώπων?

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Your translation makes sense, but then what is the predicate of the sentence?

I don’t think that this sentence has a subject-verb-predicate but the implied verb is used existential. for there are many allies about the great city of Priam,
one language belongs to one, another language to another of the widely dispersed men.

but there is a δέ, in this line, indicating that it is an independent clause, i.e. “…city of Priam, and one language…” Could ἄλλων be dependent on ἄλλη in the sense of “different from another,” i.e. “and the tongue of widespread men is different, one from one and another from another.”?[/b]

You must be right. I just skipped right over that. I can’t explain the relationship of the words. I googled ἄλλη ἄλλων and found a few occurrences. I was hoping to find a whole basket full, indicating that this is so idiomatic that it developed its own rules so to speak.

for me, this is exactly what the epic poet meant.

cf. the use of the adverb ἄλλυδις ‘elsewhither’ together with ἄλλoς or ἄλλη. Homeric constructions such as ἄλλυδις ἄλλη or ἄλλυδις ἄλλος are transtated in the LSJ as ‘one hither, another thither’.

I take, therefore, the meaning of ἄλλη ἄλλων here to be similar: “one of the one people, and another of the other people”.

then why is it feminine agreeing with “glwssa,” and what is the understood verb within the sentence?

sorry, I was somewhat elliptic in my last post, as Homer himself is a bit elliptic in his phrasing in that verse (btw could you please give an exact reference to the place?)

I understand the phrase as follows:

ἄλλη γλῶσσα ἄλλων πολυσπε?έων ἀνθ?ώπων [?στι]

“one is the language of one (tribe of the) scattered men, other is the language of another (tribe of the) scattered men”

notice that something like “tribe”, “group” or “people” has been added to my translation in order to make it clearer; but I hope you get the idea even without this lexical crutch :slight_smile:

the line number is Il. 2.804. I don’t think “allwn” goes with πολυσπε?έων ἀνθ?ώπων though. Robert Keep in his commentary on this line translates it thus: “Diverse from one another are the languages of widely scattered men.”
LSJ defines “polusperhs” thus: “wide spread, spread over the earth.” I don’t think it refers to individual tribes but rather the whole earth and hence must only be taken with “glwssa,” i.e. “the language of men spread over the earth.” But it seems that “allh” being used in the sense of “different from” with the genitive is post-homeric, so I still don’t understand how “allh allwn” is functioning.

Benner’s commentary has this for an explanation:

[804] ἄλλη δ’ ἄλλων γλῶσσα, in Latin alia aliorum lingua: ‘some speak one tongue, others another.’

It would be nice if someone could point us to where this is explained in one of the grammars. It looks strange to me too, even with that example from Latin.

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(vir litterarum did give the line reference in his subject line)

Is aλλη aλλwn just an idiom for “some of them this, some of them that”? I didn’t find many occurrences of these two words together but I did find few. One of them was in Modern Greek. 2nd paragraph of the 3rd post of:
http://www.sdtv.gr/smf/index.php?topic=6416.msg55649;topicseen

What I am saying though is I don’t think “allwn” modifies πολυσπε?έων ἀνθ?ώπων, but rather is dependent by itself upon “allh”; hence, "the language of widespread men is different from one another.

Bert inspired me to search Google for contemporary use of “άλλη δ’ άλλων?.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Zom96wdEDF4C&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq="άλλη+δ+άλλων"&source=web&ots=UFhJYoo6Ug&sig=TBMWJhCLO8udV3gr235rQFj6gWQ

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:hGv8vS3NgR8J:www.phorum.gr/archive/post/-5596-51.html+"άλλη+δ'+άλλων"&hl=el&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=gr&client=firefox-a

It looks it is an idiomatic use, meaning “plenty of very different? languages of scattered people. I think “d’? is a short form for “dia? and not for “de?.

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That makes sense. I’ll have to keep my eyes open for it.

ok. so “allwn” refers to men other than the Trojans?

looking at the wider context of the passage, I think that the πολυσπε?εῖς ἄνθ?ωποι should be the Trojan allies gathered from many places in Asian Minor to aid Priamus.