When reading a page of Peloponnesian War, which tells about Athenians’ defeat by and retreat from Syracussa, I have met a certain difficult passage. It reads:
… ὠστε δάκ?υσι πᾶν το στ?άτευμα πλησθέν καὶ απο?ίᾳ τοιαύτῃ μὴ ῥᾳδίως ἀφο?μᾶσθαι, καίπε? εκ πολεμίας τε καὶ μείζω ἣ κατὰ δάκ?υα τὰ μὲν πεπονθότας ήδη, τὰ δὲ πε?ὶ τῶν εν αφανεῖ δεδιότας μὴ πάθωσι…
(Book VII, 75).
(Excuse the lack of rough and soft spirits, but this keyboard is working wrong).
I think it can be understood, more or less litterally, that the Athenian soldiers would had no tears enough to cry their past sufferings as well as those which they were afraid of in the future. Am I right, perhaps?
If you can propose an alternative interpretarion, or a more accurate translation…
Are you asking about the last part of the passage only? If so I’d say you are right, it does say that their past sufferings and those they were afraid of in the unknown future (rough translation) where such that there were beyond the relief of crying.
Dear IreneY:
Thank you. You are always willing to come to rescue us from our doubts and difficulties.
Yes, I referred to the second part of the quoted passage. Now then, if you could propose a more or less literal translation of the quoted whole, I would be very grateful to you (if it is not too much trouble ).
Hygiaine!
although (they would be marching off) from an enemy territory and more major than for tears (were ) on one hand those they had already suffered, on the other hand those for which they were afraid lest they suffered (being) in obscurance.
Now since that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever (and it’s not just AG being translated more or less verbatim to English; we have also Thuky to thank for and his wonderful habit of telegraphic speech (I just love the guy but sometimes… )
Although it would mean they would leave an enemy territory and the things they had already suffered and those things , unknown/unrevealed (since they lied in the future), which they were afraid they may suffer were beyond tears.
I think this one, though not the best English I’ve ever writen makes at least some sense.
A really free translation would be
Although it would mean leaving the enemy terrritory behind and what they had suffered and what they were afraid they may suffer in the future was beyond tears.
The εν αφανή as you can see gives me some trouble 'cause a verbatim translation would be in obscurance, in unrevealence and my English fail me miserably.
i think in th. ἀφανές is safely translated by “the future.”
so the parallelism is: (so it was not easily that the army set out, full of tears and at such a loss,) even though (they were setting out) from enemy territory and they had, on the one hand, already suffered more than tears could handle [my feeble translation of μείζω ἢ κατὰ δάκ?υα] and, on the other had, they feared for the future, lest they suffer…
τὰ πε?ὶ τῶν ?ν ἀφανεῖ is thucydides-ese for “future calamities”, lit. “the stuff concerning the stuff in obscure.”
).
(and it’s not just AG being translated more or less verbatim to English; we have also Thuky to thank for and his wonderful habit of telegraphic speech (I just love the guy but sometimes… )