Dear friends,
I’m trying to date the following fragments and TLG doesn’t list the dates. Searching the web was unhelpful. Any help appreciated.
1st Fragment:
Adepota Papyracea (SH), Hexametri Fr. 906.1ff
στα φύει χθὼν τηλεθάοντα
[ ]..πων ἱερὴ δ’ ἀποκίδναται ὀδμή
[ ]οιο πολυπτύχου ἠγαθέοιο
[ ]νει ἑκατηβόλου Ἀπόλλωνος
[ ]’ Ἀχελωίῳ εὐνηθεῖσα·
[βο]ρέης τε νότος τ’ ἐν πείρασι γαίης
[ ]οισι μινυνθάνει· ἀγλαὸν ἥβην
[ ´]πησι νότος καὶ ἀπὸ κρύος ἔλθηι
[ ] κεκαλυμμέναι· ἂψ δ’ ἐπὶ γαῖαν
[ ] ἐπὶ μητέρα αἶψα δ’ ἔπειτα
[ ] καλὰς σείουσιν ἐθείρας
[ ].τα περὶ χροῒ νύμφαι ἔχο[υ]σαι·
[ ].ντο παρ’ Ἱπποθόην ἰανόφρυν·
[ ].α καὶ Ἥρην χρυσοπέδιλον
[ ]ωνοι ἐν οὐρανῷ ἀστερόεντι
[ ].τες ἀκηδέα θυμὸν ἔχοντες·
[ ] σεισίχθονα ποντομέδοντα·
[ ]. ἤπιον Ἀμφιτρίτην·
— — — — —
From: H. Lloyd-Jones and P. Parsons, Supplementum Hellenisticum, Berlin: De Gruyter, 1983: 399-406, 409, 411-417, 419-421, 424-432, 434-437, 439, 441-445, 447-450, 452-457.
Second Fragment:
Anonymi in Hermogenem, De figuris in libris περὶ εὑρέσεων et περὶ ἰδεῶν 3.705.1-4
Σχοινοτενὲς ἐκ τῶν Θουκυδίδου· „ὁ γὰρ Ἀχελῷ-
ος ποταμὸς ῥέων ἐκ Πίνδου ὄρους διὰ Δολοπίας καὶ
Ἀγριάνων καὶ Ἀμφιλόχων ἄνωθεν παρὰ Στράτον πό-
λιν εἰς θάλασσαν ἔξεισι παρ’ Οἰνιάδας.“
From: C. Walz, Rhetores Graeci, vol. 3, Stuttgart: Cotta, 1834 (repr. Osnabrück: Otto Zeller, 1968): 704-711.
#2 is apparently a quotation from a commentary on Hermogenes of Tarsus, a 2d c. CE rhetorician, in his book Περὶ εὑρέσεως – “How to invent arguments”. The commetator (or Hermogenes himself?) is quoting geographical information at Thucydides 2.102.2 (slightly modified). Only Σ χοινοτενὲς ἐκ τῶν Θουκυδίδου is Hermogenes or his commentator: “a straight line, from Thucydides [?]”; the rest is Thucydides. Wikipedia says Hermogenes flourished in the reign of Marcus Aurelius.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermogenes_of_Tarsus
https://books.google.com/books?id=1uoUAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=twopage&q&f=false
You may know this already. Sorry if it doesn’t add to the information at your disposal.
#1 is hard to pin down. It’s written in the language of Homeric/Hesiodic epos, so it could have been written any time from 600 BCE down to 400 CE or even later: Greeks internalized this language and were able to compose hexameter (and elegy) in it more or less convincingly over the entire course of antiquity. Hellenistic and later poets such as Apollonius and Aratus coined new words based on Homeric/Hesiodic language, but the language of this fragment seems purely Homeric or Hesiodic – nothing suggesting that it was written in the Hellenistic period or later. However, I’m no expert, and you shouldn’t rely on my amateurish pretense at scholarship. The fact that Lloyd-Jones and Parsons included it in the Supplementum Hellenisticum probably means they had some reason to do so. It would be nice to see the SH – you can download it in PDF format, but at $360, it’s a bit steep.
[Cross-posted with aew.]
Very helpful indeed–thanks to both of you!
What a great site this is!
Here’s a link to a discussion of the hexameter fragment from the 1922 Transactions and Proceedings of the American Philological Society discussing #2. The author thinks it belongs with the Hesiodic corpus, i.e., maybe 7th Century BCE. He goes on to say that he thinks the papyrus itself dates to the 2d or 3rd century CE.
https://books.google.com/books?id=YvIoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=Ἱπποθόην+ἰανόφρυν·&source=bl&ots=F1MvXA-Kvx&sig=ACfU3U2a3iQGbJ0Pb9uag_TCdjXeheO8-w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGxsSMweT2AhXfmnIEHS3PAiIQ6AF6BAgeEAM#v=onepage&q=Ἱπποθόην%20ἰανόφρυν·&f=false
A more recent discussion by Marco Perale – at least two tantalizing pages of it – can be found by Googling Ἱπποθόην ἰανόφρυν, which is a somewhat unusual epithet. It seems someone else attributed the fragment to Simias of Rhodes, an Alexandria poet of apparently the late 4th Century BCE, but this attribution too, is contested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simmias_of_Rhodes
And a translation too! Thank you so much. I really get so excited when I see something new about Acheloios. At a later date I’ll have to read through the literature and decide where in the catalog it belongs (but of course I’ll cite the various divergent opinions). Currently I’m doing a provisional run-through to determine all the themes (so the translation really helps here).