H & Q - Unit 2 - Page 60

Greek Learning Greek
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Hi,

I’m not sure about the following:[size=184]

τὰ βιβλία τὰ παρὰ τῶν ξένων ἐπαίδευε τοὺς ἐν τῇ ἀγορᾷ ἀνθρώπους, τοὺς (ομήρου φίλους. [/size]

Is it “The books, the ones from the strangers, educated the men in the marketplace, the friends of Homer.”


Thanks

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hi Matteos, it looks right to me; it’s just a strange sentence they’ve given you i think. :slight_smile:

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Matteos, you’ll get used to it. H&Q are the reigning champions of bizarre sentences for translation. Flick ahead and look at some of the English to Greek exercises and you’ll get the flavour.

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Thanks…

I thought maybe [size=167]τὰ βιβλία

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Hi Matteos,

I agree with Chad and Bingley - it’s a slightly bizarre sentence.

Specifically, I think they are using the second attributive position where the sequence is article, substantive, article, adjective (e.g., ὁ ἄνθρωπος ὁ ἀγαθὸς = ‘the good man’).
But, instead of a simple adjective, they have instead used the preposition παρά and its object.

A more familiar presentation, using the first attributive position where the sequence is article, adjective, substantive, (e.g., ὁ ἀγαθὸς ἄνθρωπος) would be:

τὰ παρὰ τῶν ξένων βιβλία…

Cordially,

Paul

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So therefore[size=150] τὰ βιβλία τὰ παρὰ τῶν ζένων

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is one big direct object?

What is the subject of the sentence, the implied “He” of epaideue or “the books?”

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“He taught them lessons.”. In greek, both ‘them’ and ‘lessons’ would be in the accusative.

This is the double accusative for verbs which do Something to Someone, right?

Ok, it makes sense now. I’m movin’ on…

Thanks for your input.


Matt

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Not so fast, Matteos. You are not moving on, yet.

I would like to take a different approach to your query.

Have you ever played strip poker? (Bear with me, moderators; I am not as perverted as you may think.)

If you have, then follow my logic here. Let’s strip the sentence down to its bear necessities: subject + verb +/- direct object. In other words, we are going to remove all the modifiers. Therefore, we now have…

τὰ βιβλία…ἐπαίδευε τοὺς…ἀνθρώπους,…

“The books (subject noun phrase) were educating (finite verb) the men (direct object noun phrase).”

Remember, Matteos, that neuter plural nouns take singular verbs!

Now, let’s add some “clothing” to the sentence, i.e., the modifiers (underlined), to make it more meaningful.

τὰ βιβλία τὰ [u]παρὰ τῶν ξένων

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I’m sure there’s a master’s if not a doctor’s thesis in there somewhere:

Strip poker as a metaphor for Greek grammar in the early 21st century.

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If I may borrow from Bob Dylan, times, my dear bingley, they are a-changin’. :slight_smile:

PeterD

P.S. Although I am a very good poker player, I have this uncanny ability to always lose at strip poker when I play in the company of girls.

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A fine analysis. Remind me never to play strip poker with you…sweetie.

My point was that another translation is quite possible.

But I must take exception here. In the words of Sonny Barger, “I ain’t no cop. I ain’t never gonna be a cop.”

Cordially,

Paul