Erasmus: Greek passages in his letters

Greek Learning Greek
1

Hello,

while reading one of Eramus’ letters I stumbled upon this Greek quote (line 21):

Nullum autem carminis genus non tentavi. Quae feliciter interciderunt aut latent, ea sinemus quiescere, ne, quod Graeci vetant, > εῦ κείμενον κακòν κινήσωμεν> .

I tried to puzzle it out using LOGEION, but without real (or sufficiently reliable) success. What does the Greek passage say?

And is there a web-site which allows automatic translation of ancient Greek text sufficiently well in order to get at least some idea what it is about (Google-Translate has Latin but not ancient Greek)?

Thank you for your help,

Carolus Raeticus

2

μὴ κινεῖν κακὸν εὖ κείμενον is a proverb, the equivalent of English “let sleeping dogs lie" (cf. Erasmus’ sinemus quiescere). In Plato’s Philebus someone says Φίληβον δ᾽ ἴσως κράτιστον ἐν τῷ νῦν ἐπερωτῶντα μὴ κινεῖν εὖ κείμενον.

If you google a word or two of quoted Greek it will often lead you to something relevant in Perseus or LSJ, or even to the source.

3

Hello mwh,

thank you for your help.

Vale,

Carolus Raeticus

4

There is a scholion on that line in Philebus:

παροιμία μὴ κινεῖν κακὸν εὖ κείμενον, ἐπὶ τῶν ἑαυτοῖς ἐξ ἀνοίας (elsewhere ἀγνοίας) πράγματα ἐγειρόντων. ταύτης μέμνηται Ὑπερείδης ὁ ῥήτωρ ἐν τῷ πρὸς Ἀριστογείτονα· “καὶ οὐδὲ ἐκ τῆς παροιμίας δύνασαι μανθάνειν τὸ μὴ κινεῖν κακὸν εὖ κείμενον.” μετῆκται δὲ ἐκ τοῦ ἐν Ῥόδῳ Κολοσσοῦ, ὃς πεσὼν πολλὰς οἰκίας κατέσεισεν. βασιλέως οὖν βουλομένου αὐτὸν ἀναστῆσαι, φοβούμενοι οἱ Ῥόδιοι μὴ πάλιν καταπέσῃ, τὸ προκείμενον ἐπεφθέγξαντο.

Here, “it’s a proverb not to badly move what is well placed, regarding those rousing problems for themselves out of their own folly.”

The rest describes how it made its way from Philebus, through the rhetor Hyperides, to the Rhodians, who prevented their king from rebuilding the Colossus with it, after it had fallen and destroyed many houses.

Strabo has a line about the Colossus not being rebuilt due to an oracle, not recorded there. But maybe Strabo has garbled this story?

Erasmus’ version, with that bare subjunctive, only makes sense to me as a question. “Shall we badly move what is well placed?” But maybe it is simply an error. His version is closest to an iambic line though.

5

Interesting scholion!

I might be misunderstanding you, but Erasmus’ quotation must be read with the preceding Latin ne, “lest.” Slightly repunctuated:

Quae feliciter interciderunt aut latent, ea sinemus quiescere, > ne > (quod Graeci vetant) εῦ κείμενον κακòν > κινήσωμεν> .

So I wouldn’t call it a bare subjunctive.

6

Oh yes, that makes perfect sense, including the ne. That was puzzling me.

7

porphyrios, And surely κακόν is the direct object of κινεῖν, not Joel’s “to badly move.” I imagine the proverb underlies Sophocles’ δεινὸν μὲν τὸ πάλαι κείμενον ἤδη κακόν, ὦ ξεῖν᾽, ἐπεγείρειν (chor. at Oed.Col.150), rather than originating there.

8

Yes, that makes sense. Not sure why I didn’t see it. Maybe Erasmus’ word order.