Dative of Reference

I have been studying this particular usage of the dative and have not been able to find a clear answer as to all of its particular usages. I understand how it is used to express advantage and disadvantage, point of view, and person judging, but these usages do not seem to adequately define its functions. While translating the Aeneid, I have found many datives that do not seem to fit any of these categories. It seems to me that the dative of reference is not only confined to expressing advantage or disadvantage. Look at this line from the Aeneid VI:

Qoud si tantus amor menti…

But if there is so great a love for your mind

It does not seem to me that the existence of such a love provides a distinct advantage or disadvantage. I wish to know if there is a broader meaning for this usage.

I don’t have time to find the context - are you sure it’s not dative possession? If so, it could mean, “But if your mind has such great love…” This is the common way of expressing abstract possession, as you probably know.

I find the dative of possession all over Virgil - but this may not be one such (context will decide). Why don’t you cite the line number, and perhaps some other examples of problematic datives? (Since it’s poetry, and Virgil, at that, some may always remain problematic.)

-David

That’s just a textbook dative of reference. It’s not advantage.

But let’s say you wanted to say " the man is loyal to the king." This sentence would require the dative case in Latin, but I do not understand what usage it would be. Whenever dative of reference is described, it refers to some action being performed. The only description for the use of dative with a being verb given are dative of the possessor and dative with certain adjectives, both of which do not apply here.

Ah, well, the dative of reference doesn’t, strictly speaking, depend on or modify any particular word in the sentence. It’s part of the whole idea. It seems like you are trying to discover what constructions or contexts the DoR occurs in; it can occur anywhere.

Don’t think of the Dative of Reference in the same way that you think of the Dative of Possession (e.g.). Dative of Possession can only occur in sentences where some form of sum is the main verb, right? Well, the Dative of Reference isn’t like that.

And, don’t forget, whenever you see “to” or “for” with a noun in English, that idea is generally expressed with the Dative case: and that basic use of the Dative is the Dative of Reference.