Biblical Hebrew

[klewlis]

@Thucydides

Argh… Dagesh Forte :shock:

lol.


I was inspired yesterday to review a bit of hebrew and was amazed at how many things like this there are to learn. I had forgotten about them! So many little marks!

[Thucydides]

I’m deeply confused. The problem is these vocal and silent shevas and this dagesh lark.

As I understand it:

Dagesh lene occurs in BeGaD KeFaT words at the beginning of a word or syllable

Dagesh forte occurs in non BeGaD KeFaT words; in BeGaD KeFaT words it occurs at the end of syllable

Vocal Sheva occurs at the beginning of words or syllables

Silent Sheva marks the end of syllables and occurs at the end of syllables

This all seems perfectly clear. Until I try the exercises.
The question is: what exactly constitues a syalble? If a have a word like (these are not real words…) “memem” is that mem-em or me-mem? What about patra? Is that pa-tra or pat-ra?

I think it would help if I knew a bit about Hebrew phonology.

[Kopio]

Sorry to join the conversation so late…

I always love finding Israeli’s that are state-side and reciting the Shema and several other passages of Biblical Hebrew that I have memorized…I always get this look…

I took two years of Hebrew (Biblical) and I didn’t especially like it when I took it. My prof was excellent, but perhaps too good…he studied under Michael Fox at Wisconsin (for those of you who know who he is, you’ve all just said “WOW”) and he was a VERY conceptual teacher, he’s brilliant and I’m not! I think that was ultimately the problem. BUT…now that I’m not taking Hebrew for credit, I’m starting to enjoy reading it again. I normally have a 3X5 card in my pocket at work, and I spend quite a bit of time memorizing Hebrew Scripture…memorizing helps me to gain new vocab, and start to feel the rhythm of the language…

What’s next for Textkit?..a Hebrew reading group

[annis]

@Kopio

What’s next for Textkit?..a Hebrew reading group

Somewhere Jeff has an ancient (well, old… out of copyright) Syriac grammar/reader that I sent. I’m sure this is far down the list of texts to put up. Everyone should use Thackston anyway: available and not expensive.

[klewlis]

@Thucydides

The question is: what exactly constitues a syalble? If a have a word like (these are not real words…) “memem” is that mem-em or me-mem? What about patra? Is that pa-tra or pat-ra?

edit: i was completely wrong before. here’s what my book says:

1. every consonant in a hebrew word, with the exception of final consonants and of aleph when it stands at the end of a syllable or is otherwise quiescent… must be followed by a vowel sound or by a silent sheva.
2. all syllables in a hebrew word must begin with a consonant, which may be any consonant in the alphabet. the one seeming exception to this rule occurs when a word begins with the vowel (sureq)…
3. a hebrew syllable must include one (and only one) full vowel. however, in addition to a full vowel, it may also contain a half-vowel, in which case the half-vowel will stand beneath the consonant that begins the syllable. the number of syllables in a word is determined by the number of full vowels in that word, ireespective of the number of half-vowels that may be present.
4. hebrew syllables are classified as either open or closed. an open syllable is one that ends in a vowel… a close syllable is one that ends in a consonant. whenever a dagesh forte occurs in a letter, that letter is doubled, and the preceding syllable is always closed.

(page h. kelley’s “biblical hebrew, an introductory grammar”, pp19-21)

[klewlis]

@annis

@Kopio

What’s next for Textkit?..a Hebrew reading group :roll:

Somewhere Jeff has an ancient (well, old… out of copyright) Syriac grammar/reader that I sent. I’m sure this is far down the list of texts to put up. Everyone should use Thackston anyway: available and not expensive.

I think it would be cool to have a semitic languages forum here as well, even though it isn’t quite classical.

[Bert]

@klewlis

I think it would be cool to have a semitic languages forum here as well, even though it isn’t quite classical.

What makes a language a classical language?

[klewlis]

@Bert

@klewlis

I think it would be cool to have a semitic languages forum here as well, even though it isn’t quite classical.

What makes a language a classical language?

just tradition i guess… we generally use “classical” to refer to graeco-roman stuff. i’m not sure if there’s more to it than that.

[annis]

@Bert

What makes a language a classical language?

When the language is used after the native speakers are gone. That’s my working definition anyway.

In the European context, of course, “the classics” has a very particular meaning, and contains a huge body of work. I second klewlis’ vote for a classical semitic board, though I’d understand completely if Jeff refrains. It’s another giant field. And I’m not sure I’d be able to do more than say, “woah, dude, Arabic does that too!!!” most of the time.

[Geoff]

For the Record

I’d Root for a semitic section. I’m not going to begin for a while, but reading the discussions lately has served as a good primer already.

[Thucydides]

Hey klewlis you have the same book that I do! (except I don’t have the answer book, which might be useful)

The vocal sheva only seems to occur in certain positions, especially before a resh (e.g. perit)

To go back to my patra example. If there was a sheva underneath the tav, would that be indicating the end of the ‘pat’ syllable or that there was a vocal sheva between the p and the t?