Well, look at Luke 6.46 at the end of 3β here in Athenaze.
“τί δέ με καλεῖτε, ‘κύριε, κύριε,’ καὶ οὐ ποιεῖτε ἃ λέγω;”
Why do you call me “Lord, Lord” and do not what I say?
There we have με καλεῖτε rather than καλεῖτέ με.
I’m intrigued. 
just keeping everyone on their toes! 
gah. these are things I should know. thanks for pointing them out.
does προσχωρεω always take the dative, or is this just what Athenaze is giving us for now? (my lexicon is at home and I am not!)
it does. It takes the accusative when followed by πρός or εἰς. ex.: προσχωρεω πρὸς τὴν πόλιν
on my toes!
On the question of ἀλλά με ἄγε:
As an enclitic, με has to slip in behind some other word, as you all know; and enclitics tend to float into second position. The trouble with ἀλλά με ἄγε is that ἀλλά scarcely counts as a word in its own right; so this word order would be most irregular. ἀλλὰ ἐμὲ ἄγε (ἀλλ’ ἔμ’ ἄγε) would be fine; but it would mean “Take me” (not someone else). The best position for με (always unemphatic, always enclitic) would be tucked in behind the verb, ἀλλ’ ἄγε με. That puts με effectively in 2nd position (ἀλλὰ not being weighty enough to count). So Bruna’s first instincts were quite correct, and Jason’s first follow-up post was on the money.
σε προσμολεῖν καλῶ - Σοφοκλῆς - Αἴας 72
με καλεῖ, πλαστὸς ὡς εἴην πατρί - Σοφοκλῆς - Οἰδίπους Τύραννος 78
These are not parallel. In the Ajax passage it’s actually the emphatic form σέ, with accent, the 2nd-person equivalent of ἐμέ, so it can come up front (“It’s you I’m calling”). With σέ σοῦ σοί it’s always important to notice whether or not it has an accent of its own, distinguishing the emphatic from the enclitic forms.
In the OT passage the με comes after other stuff, as it has to (being enclitic), so that’s different too.
τί δέ με καλεῖτε ‘κύριε, κύριε’ καὶ οὐ ποιεῖτε ἃ λέγω; (“Why do you call me “Master, master,” and don’t do what I say?”)
Here the τί makes all the difference. The δέ, which doesn’t count as a separate word at all (even less than ἀλλά, in fact, since it can’t come in first position), unobtrusively interposes itself between τί and με, and has no effect on the word order. τί με καλεῖτε (unlike ἀλλά με καλεῖτε), with or without δέ after τί, is regular word order. The με has something solid (τί) to cling on to.
Hope this helps more than it confuses!
that does help, thanks.
Hopefully I can remember it next time.
I want to try to get some answers up here for Lesson 4 tomorrow. I’m working on Greek: An Intensive Course in parallel to reviewing Athenaze here with you guys, so I don’t know what I’ll really make time for tomorrow or if I’ll have any time at all. I’m on a day of standby for flights, so I could end up flying to Hong Kong or London or New York tomorrow. I never really know until they call me. Then again, I could just be at home all day studying Greek.
You know which I’d prefer?!
Exercise 4β
- ἡ Μυρρίνη → τῆς Μυρρίνης
- ἡ Μέλιττα → τῆς Μελίττης
- ἡ καλὴ ὑδρία → τῆς καλῆς ὑδρίας
- ἡ καλὴ ἑορτή → τῆς καλῆς ἑορτῆς
- ἡ καλὴ κρήνη → τῆς καλῆς κρήνης
- ὁ μακρὸς πόνος → τοῦ μακροῦ πόνου
- ἡ καλὴ μέλιττα → τῆς καλῆς μελίττης
- τὸ καλὸν δένδρον → τοῦ καλοῦ δένδρου
Exercise 4γ
- αἱ καλαὶ γυναῖκες
- ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ
- πρὸς τῇ κρήνῃ
- τῶν ἄλλων ἀνδρῶν
- ἐκ τῆς γῆς
- ἐν ταῖς ὑδρίαις
- τὰ μεγάλα δένδρα
- οἱ ἄγγελοι
Exercise 4δ
- ἡ κόρη (S) ἄγει (TV) τὴν φίλην (DO) ἐκ τοῦ ἀγροῦ. → αἱ κόραι ἄγουσι τὰς φίλας ἐκ τῶν ἀγρῶν. The girls lead their friends out of the fields.
- ἡ δούλη (S) τὴν ὑδρίαν (DO) φέρει (TV) πρὸς τὴν κρήνην. → αἱ δοῦλαι τὰς ὑδρίας φέρουσι πρὸς τὰς κρήνας. The slave girls carry the water jars to the springs.
- καλή (C) ἐστιν (LV) ἡ κόρη (S)· ἆρ᾿ οὐκ ἐθέλεις (TV) αὐτὴν (DO) καλεῖν (TV-INF); → καλαί εἰσιν αἱ κόραι· ἆρ᾿ οὐκ ἐθέλετε αὐτὰς καλεῖν; The girls are lovely; don’t you (p.) want to call them?
- χαῖρε (IV-IMP), ὦ κόρη· ἆρα βαδίζεις (IV) πρὸς τὴν οἰκίαν; → χαίρετε, ὦ κόραι· ἆρα βαδίζετε πρὸς τὰς οἰκίας; Hello, girls. Are you (p.) walking to the houses?
- ἐν νῷ ἔχω (TV) λείπειν (TV-INF) τὴν ὑδρίαν (DO) ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ καὶ συλλαμβάνειν (IV). → ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν λείπειν τὰς ὑδρίας ἐν ταῖς οἰκίαις καὶ συλλαμβάνειν. We intend to leave the water jars in the houses and help.
Exercise 4ε
- ἡ φίλη μένει πρὸς τῇ κρήνῃ. → The friend (f.) is waiting at the spring.
- ὁ ἄνθρωπος φέρει τὸ ἄροτρον ἐκ τοῦ ἀγροῦ. → The person is carrying the plough out of the field.
- ἄκουε, ὦ φίλε· ἐν νῷ ἔχω βαδίζειν πρὸς τὴν οἰκίαν. → Listen, friend; I am intending to walk to the house.
- τί ποιεῖς, ὦ δοῦλε; μὴ οὕτω σκαιὸς ἴσθι. → What are you doing, slave? Don’t be so clumsy!
Exercise 4κ
- acc. pl.
- dat. sg.
- dat. sg.
- acc. sg.
- voc. sg.
- acc. sg.
- gen. sg.
- gen. sg.
- dat. pl.
- gen. sg.
- nom. pl.
- gen. sg.
- dat. pl.
- acc. sg.
- voc. pl.
Exercise 4λ
- ὁ Δικαιόπολις τῇ Μυρρίνῃ προσχωρεῖ καὶ «χαῖρε, ὦ γύναι,» φησί· «τί ποιεῖς;»
- «ἐγὼ πρὸς τὴν κρήνην σπεύδω. ὕδωρ γὰρ πρὸς τὴν οἰκίαν φέρειν ἐθέλω. σὺ δὲ τί ποιεῖς;»
- «ἐγὼ καὶ οἱ δοῦλοι πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδομεν. ἀλλ᾿ ἄκουε·
- «οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι ἑορτὴν ποιοῦσιν. ἐθέλεις θεωρεῖν αὐτήν;»
- «ἐγὼ μάλιστα ἐθέλω θεωρεῖν αὐτήν. μὴ οὖν ἴθι πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν, ἀλλὰ λάμβανέ με (λαβέ με OR ἄγε με) πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ.»
I couldn’t decide which verb to use for the last English-to-Greek translation exercise above.
Take me to the city. → λαμβάνω OR ἄγω?
I wasn’t sure which would be best, so I chose to represent them both, and I put an option for λαμβάνω also in the aorist, since it makes better since as a one-time single-event action (λαβέ με) rather than a continuous or repetitious action (λάμβανέ με). In the collation we did on GreekStudy, most of the participants chose ἄγω over λαμβάνω. I know that -λαβεῖν is used in the NT with people as the object. For example:
Matt. 26.37 - καὶ παραλαβὼν τὸν Πέτρον καὶ τοὺς δύο υἱοὺς Ζεβεδαίου ἤρξατο λυπεῖσθαι καὶ ἀδημονεῖν.
Acts 23.18 uses both verbs together:
ὁ μὲν οὖν παραλαβὼν αὐτὸν ἤγαγεν πρὸς τὸν χιλίαρχον καὶ φησίν· Ὁ δέσμιος Παῦλος προσκαλεσάμενός με ἠρώτησεν τοῦτον τὸν νεανίαν ἀγαγεῖν πρὸς σέ, ἔχοντά τι λαλῆσαί σοι.
This latter would be “so he took him and brought him to the commander.”
With this in mind, perhaps we should add the παρα- prefix to this:
παραλαβέ με πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ.
What do you think?
I decided it might be a good idea to try this group. Here’s my work; I’ve already corrected some mistakes based on jaihare’s answers. For λ5 I’m assuming the desired verb is ἄγειν because the reading on p. 51 includes the phrase “ἐκεῖσε ἄγειν”.
4b
Give the genitive of the following:
- ἡ Μυρρίνη > τῆς Μυρρίνης
- ἡ Μέλιττα > τῆς Μελίττης
- ἡ καλὴ ὑδρίᾱ > τῆς καλῆς ὑδρίας
- ἡ καλὴ ἑορτή > τῆς καλῆς ἑορτῆς
- ἡ καλὴ κρήνη > τῆς καλῆς κρήνης
- ὁ μακρὸς πόνος > τοῦ μακροῦ πόνου
- ἡ καλὴ μέλιττα > τῆς καλῆς μελίττης
- τὸ καλὸν δένδρον > τοῦ καλοῦ δένδρου
4c
Supply the correct form of the definite article:
- αἱ καλαὶ γυναῖκες
- ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ
- πρὸς τῇ κρήνῃ
- τῶν ἄλλων ἀνδρῶν
- ἐκ τῆς γῆς
- ἐν ταῖς ὑδρίαις
- τὰ μεγάλα δένδρα
- οἱ ἄγγελοι
4d
Put into the plural and translate:
- ἡ κόρη ἄγει τὴν φίλην ἐκ τοῦ ἀγροῦ.
αἱ κόραι ἄγουσι τὴν φίλην εκ τοῦ ἀγροῦ.
The girl leads her friend from the field.
- ἡ δούλη τὴν ὑδρίᾱν φέρει πρὸς τὴν κρήνην.
αἱ δοῦλαι τὴν ὑδρίαν φέρουσι πρὸς τὴν κρήνην.
The slave-woman carries the jug to the fountain.
- καλή ἐστιν ἡ κόρη· ἆρ’ οὐκ ἐθέλεις αὐτὴν καλεῖν;
καλαί εἰσιν αἱ κόραι· ἆρ’ οὐκ έθἐλεις αὐτὰς καλεῖν;
The girl is good: don’t you want to call her?
- χαῖρε, ὦ κόρη: ἆρα βαδίζεις πρὸς τὴν οἰκίᾶν;
χαῖρετε, ὦ κόραι· ᾶρα βαδίζετε πρὸς τὴν οἰκίαν;
Hello, girl: are you walking home?
- ἐν νῷ ἔχω λείπειν τὴν ὑδρίᾱν ἐν τῃ οἰκίᾳ καὶ συλλαμβάνειν.
ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν λείπειν τὰς ὑδρίας ἐν ταῖς οἰκίαις καὶ συλλαμβάνειν.
I’m thinking of leaving the jug at home and helping.
4e
Put into the singular and translate:
- αἱ φίλαι μένουσι πρὸς ταῖς κρήναις.
ἡ φίλη μένει πρὸς τῇ κρήνῃ.
- οἱ ἄνθρωποι φέρουσι τὰ ἄροτρα ἐκ τῶν ἀγρῶν.
ὁ ἄνθρωπος φέρει τὸ ἄροτρον ἐκ τοῦ ἀγροῦ.
- ἀκούετε, ὦ φίλοι : ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν βαδίζειν πρὸς τὰς οἰκίᾱς.
ἄκουε, ὦ φίλε· ἐν νῷ ἔχω βαδίζειν πρὸς τὴν οἰκίαν.
- τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ δοῦλοι; μὴ οὕτω σκαιοὶ ἔστε.
τί ποιεῖς, ὦ δοῦλε; μὴ οὕτω σκαιὸς ἴσθι.
4λ
Translate into Greek:
- Dicaeopolis approaches Myrrhine and says, “Greetings, dear wife (γύναι). What are you doing?”
ὁ Δικαιόπολις προσχώρει τῇ Μυρρίνῃ καὶ, “χαίρε, ῶ γύναι,” φησίν. “τί ποιεῖς;”
- “I am hurrying to the spring. For I wish to carry water (τὸ ὔδωρ) to the house. But what are you doing?”
“πρὸς τὴν κρὴνην σπεύδω. ἐθέλω γὰρ ὕδωρ πρὸς τὴν οἰκίαν φέρειν. ἀλλὰ τί ποίεις;”
- “The slave and I are hurrying to the field. But listen.” (Reverse the polite order of the subjects in the English and put the 1st person pronoun first in the Greek.)
“εγώ τε καὶ ὁ δοῦλος σπεύδομεν πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν. ἀλλὰ ἄκουε.”
- “The Athenians are celebrating a festival. Do you wish to see it?”
“οἱ Αθηναῖοι ἑορτὴν ποίουσιν. ἆρα ἐθέλεις αὐτὴν θεωρεῖν;”
- “I very much wish to see it. So don’t go (μὴ . . . ἴθι; put μὴ first in your sentence) to the field but take me to the city (τὸ ἄστυ).”
μάλιστα ἐθέλω αὐτὴν θεωρεῖν. μὴ οὖν ἴθι πρὸς τὸν αγρὸν ἀλλὰ ἀγε με εἰς τὸ ἄστυ.
I guess I missed in 4δ that we were supposed to put it into the plural before translating. I’ve gone back and done that.
Jason
Thank you for your exhaustive answer, I have not been able to comment earlier but I am going to do it now.
I understand and share your opinion, now the point is:
ἀλλά scarcely counts as a word in its own right
what evidence do we have? I mean, what source or resource could I refer to? Is a rule clearly stated anywhere?
σε προσμολεῖν καλῶ - Σοφοκλῆς - Αἴας 72
In the Ajax passage it’s actually the emphatic form σέ, with accent, the 2nd-person equivalent of ἐμέ, so it can come up front (“It’s > you > I’m calling”). With σέ σοῦ σοί it’s always important to notice whether or not it has an accent of its own, distinguishing the emphatic from the enclitic forms.
Unfortunately I had copied the unaccented σε correctly from my dictionary. I will write the publishing house.
I hope to have explained my doubts clearly. thank you for any future comments and help
The way I see it, you should use ἄγω. I think the basic meaning of λαμβάνω is “seize” and you use it when you take something toward yourself. In this respect the English “take me to the city” is less logical. Someone correct me if I’m wrong…
I think this means “He summoned (παραλαβὼν) him to himself and took (ἤγαγεν) him to the khiliarkhos…”
What do you make, then, of Acts 12.25?
Βαρναβᾶς δὲ καὶ Σαῦλος ὑπέστρεψαν, εἰς Ἰερουσαλὴμ πληρώσαντες τὴν διακονίαν, συμπαραλαβόντες Ἰωάννην τὸν ἐπικληθέντα Μᾶρκον.
Adding συν- to the word doesn’t change the essential meaning of παραλαβεῖν in your thinking, does it? It just means “bring someone with you” or “bring someone along.” Thus, without συν-, we have simply “bring someone (somewhere).”
In my thinking, I associate παραλαβεῖν with the Hebrew להביא and ἀγαγεῖν with the Hebrew להוביל (in this type of context). Perhaps I’ve got it wrongly associated in my way of thinking, but that’s how I would understand this. Thus, I think of the sentence in question as “take me along with you” rather than “lead me” to a place. You lead oxen (ἀγαγεῖν). You lead slaves (ἀγαγεῖν). You lead people who are lost (ἀγαγεῖν). But you take a friend along with you when you visit a new place ([συμ]παραλαβεῖν). The παρα- represents “with you” (παρά σοι), as in saying that you are taking this other person to this place in your own presence.
Is this not the case?
[Interestingly, we would more colloquially use לקחת in this type of sentence in Hebrew: קח אותי (איתך) לעיר. The original sentence said “take me to the city,” and I think “take” (as in Hebrew לקחת) matches the sense well. Look at Matthew 2.20: Ἐγερθεὶς παράλαβε τὸ παιδίον καὶ τὴν μητέρα αὐτοῦ καὶ πορεύου εἰς γῆν Ἰσραήλ, τεθνήκασιν γὰρ οἱ ζητοῦντες τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ παιδίου. What I’m lacking is the simple “take X to Y” in the Greek. Perhaps in my answer, I need to incorporate both words! I should change it to παράλαβέ με καὶ ἄγε πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ or something.]
Well, I agree that “took along” is good translation here. But in the Greek, (συμ)παραλαβεῖν doesn’t contain the idea of leading from one place to another – the essential idea of παραλαβεῖν is that the action results in the object being in the same place as the subject. The idea of “going together” comes from the context and is only implied; as far as the Greek goes, they could have “taken” John aka Mark to the city by magically teleporting him.
Look at Matthew 2.20: Ἐγερθεὶς παράλαβε τὸ παιδίον καὶ τὴν μητέρα αὐτοῦ καὶ πορεύου εἰς γῆν Ἰσραήλ, τεθνήκασιν γὰρ οἱ ζητοῦντες τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ παιδίου. What I’m lacking is the simple “take X to Y” in the Greek. Perhaps in my answer, I need to incorporate both words! I should change it to παράλαβέ με καὶ ἄγε πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ or something.
Ἐγερθεὶς παράλαβε τὸ παιδίον καὶ τὴν μητέρα αὐτοῦ καὶ πορεύου εἰς γῆν Ἰσραήλ
I think this basically means “Get up, gather your family and go to Israel.” παράλαβε is just a preliminary preparation before going (πορεύου), it doesn’t mean “take them to Israel”.
παράλαβέ με καὶ ἄγε πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ
“Take me with you (=let me come to you) and (then) lead me to the city”
So, I think you can use παραλαβέ for “take me to the city” when the focus is in the idea of being together thereafter (“Take me to the city”=“I want to be in the city with you”). For “take X to Y”, use ἄγε.
This is how I see it. I don’t know Hebrew, so I can’t comment that.
It’s a mistake to take παραλαβεῖν to be “gather.” So, yes, παράλαβέ με is an absurdity when translated this way, but it isn’t an absurdity in Greek. Just check Google. 
Sorry, I noticed it myself and corrected myself before reading this…
Hey, apparently παράλαβε has a proparoxytone accent. That’s interesting, because λαβέ is oxytone.
I know. I’ve been writing παράλαβέ με. Didn’t you notice?