Having spent three months and eight days (!) on lesson 11, we are now opening lesson 12. At least we’re making progress!
Let’s try to get this one done in two months! 
Here’s the template:
Section 12α of the Textbook
Exercise 12γ
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Exercise 12ε
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Exercise 12ζ
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Exercise 12η
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Good luck!
Along with preparations for lesson 12, I have updated my verb sheet.
It includes (at this point) the present, future and aorist indicative for every verb that we’ve encountered in Athenaze until now.
I am thinking of how I can incorporate the participle forms into it. I may just make a few more lines in each one for present, future and aorist participles. It’s probably going to become a very large file with time. But, I want to keep it up so that I have something to refer to when doing exercises (if I get stuck). I figured that this is how you could use it, too, if you want.
Regards,
Jason
These are my stabs at zeta and eta.
(And thanks Jason for making the topic just Lesson 12α. That’s much appreciated.)
12 Ζ1 ) Dikaiopolis did not want to lead his wife to the town.
(ἡγήσασθαι is aorist because the wife wanted to actually get to the town to see the festival not merely to burn off calories. ἠθέλησε, I assume is aorist because his not wanting was only his first reaction – making it aorist leaves open the posibility that his mind may be changed)
2 ) The stranger having entered immediately asked for wine.
(straight forward completed action followed by another completed action hence both aorist)
3 ) Having made a libation, the priest prayed to the gods.
(same as 2 – butter the gods up first and then hit them with your request)
4 ) Despite the women having caught sight of the men did not stop shouting
(I used “caught sight of” as plain “saw” can be both perfective and imperfective as in standard English “were seeing” is frowned on. ἐπαύσαντο the sharp ceasing of an action is about as aorist as you can get. I clearly need more practice with feminine participles as at first glance βοῶσαι looked like an aorist to me – because of the s. It is the first present so far as far as I can see.
5 ) Come in, child, and greet your farther.
(Complete the first action and then do the second)
6 ) Come here, child, and tell me what you did.
(εἴσελθε-εἰπέ come right over here and then tell the whole story; ἐποίησας clearly something the adult suspects the child achieved or perpetrated rather than aimless play.)
7 ) The maiden having watched the chorus, hurried home.
(aorist again – she watched the chorus to the end and then reached home afterwards)
8 ) The master ordered the slaves to be silent, but the slaves did not stop chatting.
(the master gives single order expecting an immediate result – perhaps “shut up” gets the aorist-ness of σιγῆσαι better?- the only present is διαλεγόμενοι as an open ended conversation is being conveyed not a speech that can be completed.)
9 ) The sailors, having untied the ship, sailed out of the harbor.
(Well clearly the ship has to be completely untied before they sail out the harbor and they do get right out of the harbor.)
10 ) The messenger urged the citizens to be quiet and listen.
(Natural English doesn’t really get the sense of the Greek “go into a state of being silent and listen to the end” would be closer. The aorist of σιγαω is a little different from that of the majority of verbs in that it refers to the initiation of a state that continues. It’s the act of initiation that is completed hence perfective, that is to say aorist.)
12Η1) ποιησάμενοι σπονδὴν καὶ ἐξομνύμενοι τοὺς θεοὺς, ἐβάδισαν εἰς τὸ ἄστυ.
2) ὁ πατὴρ ἐκέλευσε τὸν παῖδα πέμψαι τὸν κύνα οἴκαδε.
3) ἐβοήθησα μέν σοι, ἡγήσω δὲ ἐν κίνδυνον.
4) καλέσον τὴν σὴν μητέρα, ὦ παῖ, καὶ αἴτησον αὐτὴν ἡμᾶς δέξασθαι.
5) ὁ νεανίας νικήσας ἐδέξατο στέφανον.
6) ἐφικνούμενοι ἐν τὸ ἄστυ εἴδομεν πόλους ἄνδρας ἐν τάς ὁδούς ὄντας.
Exercise 12γ
Exercise 12ε
Exercise 12ζ
Exercise 12η
While working on this, I found several verbs in the exercises that I hadn’t included in the verb sheet. I filled out the sheet as I worked through it. If my tablet has synced properly, it should be uploaded and updated, but I can’t be sure right now.
Let me know if there’s anything that you don’t find on the sheet.
Daivid - Do you want individual feedback on your work?
I’m not sure what the difference would be between imperfect (ἤθελεν) and aorist (ἠθέλησεν) in this case. As far as the infinitive (ἡγήσασθαι), it is best to think of the aorist as the standard form for infinitives and the present as having the continuous/progressive notion attached to it. In other words, λῦσαι is to release while λύειν is to be releasing. It shouldn’t always be translated this way, of course, but it’s better to think of it in these terms. You can’t assume anything about the wife’s desire to go based on the aorist form. In the infinitive, we need to detach the aorist from tense completely.
I like how you chose “despite” for καίπερ instead of “although” or “even though.” It allows for translation of the participle with -ing while maintaining the original meaning. I’ll certainly keep that in mind for the future. You are missing a personal pronoun in the sentence, however: “Despite the women having seen the men, u[/u] did not stop shouting.” I don’t know what I think about “caught sight of” for ἰδεῖν.
If I’m standing inside the house, why can’t I call the man myself? I think the speaker is telling the child to go in (not come in)… because he’s standing outside and wants to child to go in the house and call his father. I don’t think “greet” is appropriate. He wants to call him so that he will come outside and help with something, it seems to me.
You’ve copied εἴσελθε from #5. In #6, it says simply ἐλθὲ δεῦρο. It’s curious to me, by the way, that the accent shifts from the ultima to the antepenult when the preposition is added to -ἐλθε in the imperative. I agree with the accusational tone of τί ἐποίησας. If it were not accusational, it would probably have been τί ἔπαθες (as if it happened to him and he didn’t do it himself).
It tells us that her watching came to an end before the main verb’s action, but it doesn’t tell us that the chorus came to an end. She watched (for however long), finished watching (even if she got tired of it in the middle) and left to hurry home.
Don’t disagree.
Agreed.
I’m not sure if you’re commenting on the fact that σιγήσαντας is a participle or not. It is showing us that participles can be attached to forms other than finite ones. In this case, it is attached to an infinitive – and the participle takes on the same force as the main verb on which it is dependent. In this case, since it’s an infinitive, the participle can also be translated with an infinitive. That is, “he ordered them, having quieted down, to listen” ➙ “he ordered them to quiet down and listen.”
1: Think of εἰς τὸ ἄστυ as “into the city” and πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ as “to/toward the city.” I think you should choose the latter. Also, who did the walking? Was it “they” or “we”? What form is ἐβάδισαν? The word that the book has given us for “pray” so far is εὔχομαι + dat.sd
3: Along those same lines, the leading woul be into danger (motion towards), which would make it εἰς + acc. rather than ἐν + dat. (ἐν is always followed by the dative).
6: “Having X-ed” leads me to take this as an aorist participle (ἀφικόμενοι) rather than a present one (ἀφικνούμενοι). This verb appears in collocation with εἰς + acc. to give us the meaning of “arrive at.” The accent on τάς should shift to grave, and after ἐν should be the dative (ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς) rather than the accusative. You don’t need ὄντας or ἄνδρας (which says men and not women). πολλοὺς ἐν ταῖς ὁδοῖς εἴδομεν conveys the meaning just fine.
I was bored, so you got it whether you wanted it or not!
Where are Bruna and CanadianGirl? I’m ready to start 12β already! 
After spending > 3 months in chapter 11, it would be great to get through chapter 12 within a month!
How could I not want it?!
Thanks very much for the feedback. I shall work thru all your points carefully.
Jaihare-slow down-I’m just now looking at 12 ! Regards, Paige.
Exercise 12γ
Exercise 12δ
βλέψας βλέψασα βλέψαν
βλέψαντος βλεψάσης βλέψαντος
βλέψαντι βλεψάσῃ βλέψαντι
βλέψαντα βλέψασαν βλέψαν
βλέψας βλέψασα βλέψαν
βλέψαντε βλεψάσα βλέψαντε
βλεψάντοιν βλεψάσαιν βλεψάντοιν
βλέψαντες βλέψασαι βλέψαντα
βλεψάντων βλεψασῶν βλεψάντων
βλέψασιν βλεψάσαις βλέψασιν
βλέψαντας βλεψάσας βλέψαντα
βλέψαντες βλέψασαι βλέψαντα
ποιήσας ποιήσασα ποιῆσαν
ποιήσαντος ποιησάσης ποιήσαντος
ποιήσαντι ποιησάσῃ ποιήσαντι
ποιήσαντα ποιήσασαν ποιῆσαν
ποιήσας ποιήσασα ποιῆσαν
ποιήσαντε ποιησάσα ποιήσαντε
ποιησάντοιν ποιησάσαις ποιησάντοιν
ποιήσαντες ποιήσασαι ποιήσαντα
ποιησάντων ποιησασῶν ποιησάντων
ποιήσασιν ποιησάσαις ποιήσασιν
ποιήσαντας ποιησάσας ποιήσαντα
ποιήσαντες ποιήσασαι ποιήσαντα
Exercise 12ε
Exercise 12ζ
I really missed posting, and reading everybody’s comments!
Well, the exercise did ask us to explain why the aorist was being used. And, can’t the present infinitives sometimes cover habitual action and not just actions that would have a continuous sense according to English system of aspect?
I didn’t actually say anything about the wife’s desire. I wanted to contrast between a general open ended conviction that “no way am I going to a festival” (imperfective) to a reaction to the possibility being presented to him. In the story it is put to him by his wife and that isn’t stated by the Greek here but it does seem to imply that Dikaiopolis has just been forced to consider his position without having thought much about it before. (Whether or not he is open to persuasion or not is on reflection a red herring).
Yes, I see that now. Thanks
Thanks for that warning. In serbo-croat the perfective can have the sense of doing-a-thing-untill-one-has-had-ones-fill. Would that sense be possible here, or for that matter in Ancient Greek in general?
No I was only making a comment on the aorist-present/imperfect distinction but thanks for drawing my attention to the use of the infinitive.
So would εἰς would be just the act of going thru the gates while also covers walking from further away and would get you into the city provided the aorist is used.
Thanks
Thanks. I went seriously awry there. 
Thanks
Typical English-Greek overkill. Thanks for putting me right.
“I’m not sure what the difference would be between imperfect (ἤθελεν) and aorist (ἠθέλησεν).”
ουκ ηθελεν “wasn’t willing,” ουκ ηθελησεν “refused.” (cf. ουκ εφη “denied”)
(In the latter case, he didn’t do it. In the former, if he had to do it anyway he did it ουκ εθελων, against his will or involuntarily.)
Great job Jason!
Wow! It’s just like the difference between no quería (“he didn’t want”) and no quiso (“he refused”) in Spanish.
In Spanish, the positive forms also have special meaning: quería (“he wanted”) vs. quiso (“he tried”). Does this distinction carry through in Greek perhaps, in which ἤθελε(ν) would be “wanted” while ἠθέλησε(ν) would be “tried”? (Probably not, but I’m just surmising.)
Thanks, mwh!
Me, too. Absolutely. I’ll try to give you some feedback today or tomorrow.
Whenever I meet the aorist of ἐθέλω I shall remember those words -Thanks
And thanks Jason for flagging up - I didn’t know I didn’t know that.
It’s turned into a few more days. I’m in the middle of an emergency re-training course, and there is more studying than I anticipated. I’ll get to it. Promise!
no problem at all.
I’m still reading through your comments and everybody else’s posts. I find those on the use and meaning of aorist enlightening.
Apart from memorizing endings etc. what I really need is this type of insight into syntax.
have a nice re-training week
You’re absolutely right, Bruna.
Perhaps we should all do (have done) what Daivid did - explain why we chose the forms that we did for the verbs. Do you think that’s a good idea? I can go back and give my rationale, if you want.
Jason
καλῶς γέγραφας, ὦ φίλη.
I didn’t do this portion of the text. I figured it could be kept for our own works. I think I’ll put together participle paradigms for each of the verbs along with what I’ve been working on.
#5: You should remove the augment for the infinitive and the participle. Thus, we should see εὐξάμενοι (with no augment).
#6: The ε of -έω verbs almost always lengthens before the sigma of the future and the aorist. Thus, we have οἰκήσομεν (future) and ᾠκήσαμεν (aorist).
#12: Does your book read νικῶμεν? If so, it should be ἐνικήσαμεν.
Very nice job. I probably should have added reasons for the use of the aorist, as both you and Daivid have done.
Should we expect to see your English-to-Greek translations coming up? I was able to make a few corrections to my own contribution based on your work. Thanks for the hard work that you do.