North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

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seneca2008
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North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

I don't want to reinvent the wheel but I thought it might be a good idea to post a set of answers here to the Preliminary Exercises. It seems to me that there are some errors in those posted in the old thread https://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-for ... hp?t=20472 and its best to start afresh.

Here are my answers to 1-10 for Exercise A. I don't want to post all 20 in one go as it might put people off commenting. I would be grateful for corrections. ( I am uncertain about the macrons so if we have any experts here on these it would be good to hear from you.)

Particular questions I had are:

is "the enemy" usually singular or plural in Latin. So In 6. is it Ab hoste or hostibus. Does it matter?

is moenia better than mūrī for city walls?

patria seemed to me better than terra but I can see why others think differently. Again does it matter?

1. The land was ruled by a good king.
Patria ā regē bonō regēbātur.

2. The soldier was killed by an arrow.
Milēs sagittā occīsus est.

3. The boy killed the bird with a stone.
Puer avem lapide interfēcit.

4. The Roman general was defeated by Hannibal.
Dux rōmānus ā Hannibale victus est.

5. The soldier killed the peasant with a sword.
Milēs gladiō agricolam interfēcit.

6. We have been conquered by the enemy.
Ab hoste (hostibus) victī sumus.

7. The walls were defended by the citizens.
Mūrī ā cīvibus defensī sunt. (Moenia ā cīvibus defensa sunt.)

8. Our city was built by Romulus.
Urbs nostra ā Rōmulō aedificata est.

9.The Romans fortified their city with a wall.
Rōmānī urbem suam mūrō munivērunt. (Rōmānī urbem suam moenibus munivērunt.)

10. Gaul is separated from Britain by the sea.
Gallia ā Britanniā mari dividitur
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

patrīa (long i) is fatherland (terra patrīa). I would use terra, for land in general.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

bedwere wrote:patrīa (long i) is fatherland (terra patrīa). I would use terra, for land in general.
Thanks for this.

Here are the next 10.

11. A high wall defends the camp.
Mūrus altus castra defendit.

12. We are loved by our friends, and we love them.
Ab amicīs amāmur et eōs amāmus.

13. We shall not be conquered by the enemy.
Ab hoste (hostibus) nōn vincēmur.

14. The camp is defended by a long wall.
castra mūrō longō defenduntur.

15. The citizens defended the city.
Cīvēs urbem defendērunt

16.Cities are defended by the citizens.
Urbēs ā cīvibus defenduntur.

17. We have taken the camp.
Castra capimus.

18. The camp has been taken by us.
Castra ā nōbis capta sunt.

19. They are teaching the boys.
puerōs docent

20. The boys are taught by books.
Puerī librīs docentur
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

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seneca2008 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:33 am 17. We have taken the camp.
Castra capimus.
cēpimus

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Thanks bedwere. Wrong tense of course. It should be perfect not present.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

Welcome. How about creating a Google doc (or something similar) and then a pdf to upload to our repository on archive.org?

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

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If that would be helpful I would happily carry on with this. Of course I will rely on comments from others to make sure we have an accurate set of solutions.

Once again bedwere thanks for your help.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Here are the first 10 of B.

B

1. Give me this book.
Dā mihi hunc librum.

2. Do not give him a sword, but give him arrows.
Nōlī eī dare gladium, sed (dā eī) sagittās. Nōlite eī dare gladium, sed (date eī) sagittās.

3. Let us go, and let them remain here.
Eāmus et maneant hīc.

4. Do not go home, but return to us.
Nōlī īre domum, sed ad nos redī. Nōlite īre domum, sed ad nos redite.

5. Let him go away now, but come again.
Nunc discēdat, sed rūrsus veniat.

6. Keep these books. Do not lose them.
Servā hōs librōs. Nōlī eōs perdere.

7. Let us fortify the city with walls.
Urbem moenibus mūniāmus.

8 Do not let us return to the city.
Nē ad urbem redierimus. (Gildersleeve 263. perfect subjunctive with nē)

9. Boys, obey your masters.
Puerī, magistrīs pārete.

10. Let us spend the winter in the city.
In urbe hiemem agāmus

Grateful for corrections. I wondered about 8 because Gildersleeve says elsewhere that nē plus perfect subjunctive is rare in elevated prose.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by katalogon »

Looking at section 263 of Glildersleeve and Lodge, the usage of the perfect subjunctive negatively seems to be indicated for the second person (not the first or third persons).

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Yes it is but if you look at 263 3 the note says the pf is very rare but quotes Tacitus. For a beginner's exercise it's best to use the present subjunctive. I think I misread something in another book. Thanks for your help.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by consistebat »

bedwere wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:39 pm patrīa (long i) is fatherland (terra patrīa).
Is that really so? I don't see the long i in the linked dictionary entry. And since vocalis ante vocalem corripitur (with some exceptions), I would expect there to be a good reason for a long vowel here?

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by katalogon »

Yes it is but if you look at 263 3 the note says the pf is very rare but quotes Tacitus
But the title of 263.3 is "In the Third Person Present (regularly)". So I took the note referring to Tacitus as applying only to the third person.

Considerations on the usage in the first person plural seem to have been placed only in 263.1, which has no mention at all of a possible use of the perfect subjunctive.

In any case, I agree with you that it does seem extremely unlikely that the perfect subjunctive would have been the expected answer.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

consistebat wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:36 pm
bedwere wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:39 pm patrīa (long i) is fatherland (terra patrīa).
Is that really so? I don't see the long i in the linked dictionary entry. And since vocalis ante vocalem corripitur (with some exceptions), I would expect there to be a good reason for a long vowel here?
Sorry, it is a software bug. The macron appears on the i at normal size, but when I enlarge the page it disappears and shows a breve!

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

@ katalogon thanks I seem to be having a bad day reading English!

Any other comments from anyone on these first 10?
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

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Ok here are the next 10 of B.

11. Do not remain at home.
Nōlī domi manere.

12. Let them build ships. Let them not be afraid of the sea.
Nāves aedificent. Ne mare timeant.

13. Do not give me the book.
Nōli librum mihi dare.

14. This is Caius's book--give it to him.
Hic liber Caiī est, eī dā.

15. Do not let us remain here.
Ne hīc maneāmus.

16. Let him be killed.
Interficiātur.

17. Do not be afraid of the sea.
Nōlī mare timēre.

18. Citizens, defend the city with your arms.
Civēs urbem armīs defendite.

19. Give me the letter.
Dā mihi epistulam.

20. Let all return to the city.
Omnes ad urbem redeant.

Grateful for corrections.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

It is taking more time for me to check the macrons than to do the exercises so I would be grateful if someone could check them for me. Especially on the previous posts. I will post corrected versions in due course.

Meanwhile here is 1-10 of the next exercise:

Exercise C.
APPOSITION; COMPOSITE SUBJECT.

1. Romulus, son of Mars, was the first king of the Romans.
Rōmulus, fīlius Martis, rex prīmus Rōmānōrum erat.

2. Obey the king, the father of his country.
Pārēte rēgī, patrī patriae.

3. You and your brother will be killed by the enemy.
Tū et fīlius tuus ab hostibus interficiēminī

4. Caius and I are well.
Cāius et ego valēmus.

5. The youths were killed by their father, Brutus.
iuvenēs ā patre Brutō interfectī sunt

6. You and I and our friends will set out.
Tū et ego et amīcī nostrī proficīscēmur.

7.The king and queen are dear to all of the citizens.
Rex et regina cārī omnibus cīvibus sunt.

8. By good laws Numa, the second king of Rome, benefited his country.
Numa, rex secundus Rōmae, lēgibus bonīs patriae prōfuit.

9. Both men and women were killed by the soldiers.
Et virī et fēminae ā mīlitibus interfectī sunt.

10. All of us love life, the greatest gift of the gods.
Omnes vītam, dōna deōrum maxima, amāmus.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by mwh »

In 10 why plural dona?

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Thanks, not thinking. dōnum deōrum maximum.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by Herodotean »

Some macrons to change:
seneca2008 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:57 am 1. The land was ruled by a good king.
Patria ā regē bonō regēbātur.
rēge
2. The soldier was killed by an arrow.
Milēs sagittā occīsus est.

5. The soldier killed the peasant with a sword.
Milēs gladiō agricolam interfēcit.
mīles
7. The walls were defended by the citizens.
Mūrī ā cīvibus defensī sunt. (Moenia ā cīvibus defensa sunt.)
dēfēnsī
8. Our city was built by Romulus.
Urbs nostra ā Rōmulō aedificata est.
aedificāta
9.The Romans fortified their city with a wall.
Rōmānī urbem suam mūrō munivērunt. (Rōmānī urbem suam moenibus munivērunt.)
mūnīvērunt
10. Gaul is separated from Britain by the sea.
Gallia ā Britanniā mari dividitur
marī dīviditur
seneca2008 wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:33 am 11. A high wall defends the camp.
Mūrus altus castra defendit.
dēfendit
12. We are loved by our friends, and we love them.
Ab amicīs amāmur et eōs amāmus.
amīcīs
14. The camp is defended by a long wall.
castra mūrō longō defenduntur.
dēfenduntur
15. The citizens defended the city.
Cīvēs urbem defendērunt
dēfendērunt
16.Cities are defended by the citizens.
Urbēs ā cīvibus defenduntur.
dēfenduntur
18. The camp has been taken by us.
Castra ā nōbis capta sunt.
nōbīs
seneca2008 wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:28 pm Here are the first 10 of B.

4. Do not go home, but return to us.
Nōlī īre domum, sed ad nos redī. Nōlite īre domum, sed ad nos redite.
nōs, nōs, redīte
9. Boys, obey your masters.
Puerī, magistrīs pārete.
pārēte

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Herodotean wrote:Some macrons to change:
Thank you very much. A few of these I had noticed but many I hadn't.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by Herodotean »

Glad to help! A few more:
seneca2008 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:20 pm Ok here are the next 10 of B.

11. Do not remain at home.
Nōlī domi manere.
domī manēre
12. Let them build ships. Let them not be afraid of the sea.
Nāves aedificent. Ne mare timeant.

15. Do not let us remain here.
Ne hīc maneāmus.

18. Citizens, defend the city with your arms.
Civēs urbem armīs defendite.
cīvēs, dēfendite
20. Let all return to the city.
Omnes ad urbem redeant.
omnēs
seneca2008 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:30 pm Exercise C.
APPOSITION; COMPOSITE SUBJECT.

1. Romulus, son of Mars, was the first king of the Romans.
Rōmulus, fīlius Martis, rex prīmus Rōmānōrum erat.
rēx
5. The youths were killed by their father, Brutus.
iuvenēs ā patre Brutō interfectī sunt
Brūtō
7.The king and queen are dear to all of the citizens.
Rex et regina cārī omnibus cīvibus sunt.
rēx, rēgīna
8. By good laws Numa, the second king of Rome, benefited his country.
Numa, rex secundus Rōmae, lēgibus bonīs patriae prōfuit.
rēx
10. All of us love life, the greatest gift of the gods.
Omnes vītam, dōna deōrum maxima, amāmus.
omnēs

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Again many thanks for corrections so far.

Here is 11-19 of C.

11. The king lost his kingdom and his riches, the things most pleasant to him.
Rēx regnum et dīvitiās, rēs eī iūcundissimās perditit.

12. Citizens, obey me, your king.
Cīvēs, mihi pārēte, rēgī vestrō.

13. Neither the king nor his sons will be killed.
Neque rēx neque fīliī interficiēntur.

14. The king and his son Caius have been killed.
Rēx fīliusque Cāius interfectī sunt.

15. He and I will go away.
Is et ego discēdent.

16. Give the letter to me, your king.
Dā epistulam mihi, rēgī tuō.

17. She and her brother have been sent home.
Ea et frāter domī dīmissī sunt.

18. His father, the king of Italy, has sent him.
Pater eius, rēx Italiae, eum mīsit.

19. I have come to you, my own brother.
Ad tē vēnī, meum frātrem.

20. Both the men and the women are good citizens.
Et virī et fēminae bōnī cīvēs sunt.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

13 I'd add eius
14 Ditto
15 Discedēmus I 'd say I+he=we
17 eius

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by mwh »

11 rēgnum, perdidit
13 interficientur
17 domum
20 bonī

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Many thanks Bedwere and Michael. I will post corrected answers in due course.

here are 1-10 of D

Exercise D.

QUESTIONS; USE OF RELATIVE.

1. Who saw the man, who killed the king?
Quis virum vīdit, qui rēgem interfēcit.

2. Did you, who were present, see him?
Vīdistīne eum, qui adfuērunt.

3. Did not Marius, the Roman general, conquer the Teutones.
Nonne Marius, dux Rōmānus, Teutonōs vīcit. ( is imperātor better and incidentally my Lewis elementary dictionary has imperātōr but OLD has imperātor)

4. He was not killed by the enemy, was he?
Num ab hostibus interfectus est?

5. Has he lost the presents which you gave him?
Perdiditne dōna quae eī dedistī.

6. What general conquered the Teutones?
Quī dux Teutonōs vīcit?

7. What did you buy for your brother?
Quid frātrī tuō ēmeruistī.

8. I have lost the book which I bought for my brother.
Librum, quem frātrī meō ēmī, perdidī

9. Whose son are you?
Cuius fīlius es?

10. Were you not present?
Nonne aderās?
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

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seneca2008 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:30 pm 2. Did you, who were present, see him?
Vīdistīne eum, qui adfuērunt.
adfuistis

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Thanks and ouch! :D
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by mwh »

Also:
3, 10 Nōnne
7 ēmistī (!)
1, 2, 3, 5, 7 Add question mark

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

For macrons, you may want to compare with https://alatius.com/macronizer/

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Thanks Michael no idea what I was thinking of in 7, but I have been compiling answers to several sets of exercises from various books and have clearly got a bit confused.

@bedwere Thanks. I saw the macroniser but I had no idea how accurate it is, if you recommend it I will start using it.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by katalogon »

bedwere wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:58 pm
seneca2008 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:30 pm 2. Did you, who were present, see him?
Vīdistīne eum, qui adfuērunt.
adfuistis
Wouldn't we want the number (of you) to be consistent?

Vīdistīne eum, quī adfuistī?

or

Vīdistisne eum, quī adfuistis?

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Thanks Katalogon. I assumed it was a typo in bedwere's reply. Unlike my inexplicable howler.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by katalogon »

seneca2008 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:32 pm Thanks Katalogon. I assumed it was a typo in bedwere's reply. Unlike my inexplicable howler.
I assumed the same, but just a sanity check for me!

I'm learning from all this, so thanks for the effort!

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Here is a corrected version of A. If anyone spots mistakes please let me know.

EDIT. This has been edited to take account of bedwere's comment below on 9.
North and Hillard A
Show
North and Hillard

A

ACTIVE AND PASSIVE;
ABLATIVE OF INSTRUMENT AND AGENT.


1. The land was ruled by a good king.
Terra ā rēge bonō regēbātur.

2. The soldier was killed by an arrow.
Mīles sagittā occīsus est.

3. The boy killed the bird with a stone.
Puer avem lapide interfēcit.

4. The Roman general was defeated by Hannibal.
Dux rōmānus ā Hannibale victus est.

5. The soldier killed the peasant with a sword.
Milēs gladiō agricolam interfēcit.

6. We have been conquered by the enemy.
Ab hoste (hostibus) victī sumus.

7. The walls were defended by the citizens.
Mūrī ā cīvibus dēfēnsī sunt.

8. Our city was built by Romulus.
Urbs nostra ā Rōmulō aedificāta est.

9. The Romans fortified their city with a wall.
Rōmānī urbem mūrō mūnīvērunt.

10. Gaul is separated from Britain by the sea.
Gallia ā Britanniā marī dīviditur.

11. A high wall defends the camp.
Mūrus altus castra dēfendit.

12. We are loved by our friends, and we love them.
Ab amīcīs amāmur et eōs amāmus.

13. We shall not be conquered by the enemy.
Ab hoste (hostibus) nōn vincēmur.

14. The camp is defended by a long wall.
Castra mūrō longō dēfenduntur.

15. The citizens defended the city.
Cīvēs urbem dēfendērunt

16. Cities are defended by the citizens.
Urbēs ā cīvibus dēfenduntur.

17. We have taken the camp.
Castra cēpimus.

18. The camp has been taken by us.
Castra ā nōbīs capta sunt.

19. They are teaching the boys.
Puerōs docent

20. The boys are taught by books.
Puerī librīs docentur.
Last edited by seneca2008 on Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

Minor point:

9. The Romans fortified their city with a wall.
Rōmānī urbem suam mūrō mūnīvērunt.

suam is not really necessary, unless you want to emphasize.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Thanks it might be best in brackets in that case. In earlier examples you suggested I added eius to

13. Neither the king nor his sons will be killed.
Neque rēx neque fīliī interficiēntur.

14. The king and his son Caius have been killed.
Rēx fīliusque Cāius interfectī sunt.

and

17. She and her brother have been sent home.
Ea et frāter domum dīmissī sunt.

I can see that these cases are different but I wondered if eius was necessary here. I find knowing when to include possessives tricky.

17. Edited :corrected to domum (I should have copied and pasted from my corrected copy on computer.. a bit sloppy).
Last edited by seneca2008 on Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by bedwere »

As I understand it, in these examples the subject is actually a generic "they". Since fīliī, fīlius, and frāter do not belong to the subject, we use ejus to indicate that they instead belong to rēx and Ea. In principle, fīliī etc. could belong to somebody else. However, in 9 urbem belongs by default to the subject, Rōmānī. Hence, suam would be emphatic.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

Many thanks for your reply. I should have been clearer. I understand when you use suus rather than eius. My question is when one can safely leave out any possessive.

Quite rightly you said suus was not needed except for emphasis in "Rōmānī urbem suam mūrō mūnīvērunt."

but it seemed to me that eius is a bit redundant in

13. Neither the king nor his sons will be killed
Neque rēx neque fīliī eius interficientur.

14. The king and his son Caius have been killed.
Rēx et fīlius eius Cāius interfectī sunt.

17. She and her brother have been sent home.
Ea et frāter eius domum dīmissī sunt.

I accept that as you say "In principle, fīliī etc. could belong to somebody else". I left eius out because I thought that was unlikely as we were talking about family members. The problem as ever in single sentence exercise is lack of context.

I have amended these sentences as you suggested to make the relationship clear. It's probably more helpful for beginners to include it. This is by way of explanation why I had left them out. :D
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by seneca2008 »

here are 11-20 of Exercise D

I am unsure whether to include the bracketed words in 16 and 18.

Grateful for corrections.

11.Surely he did not say that?
Num id nōn dīxit?

12. What name is dearest to you?
Quod nōmen cārissimum tibi est?

13.This is the book that I lost.
Hic liber est quem perdidī.

14. What cities has he taken?
Quās urbēs cēpit?

16. By whom was he killed?
(A) Quō interfectus est?

16. Am I not your father?
Nōnne pater tuus sum?

17. He did not say that, did he?
Nōnne id nōn dīxit?

18. She is not the woman, whose son was present.
(Ea) mulier nōn est cuius fīlius aderat.

19. What city do I see?
Quam urbem videō?

20. What man's house have you bought?
Cuius virī domum ēmistī?
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: North And Hillard Latin Prose Composition Preliminary Exercises

Post by mwh »

Agreed on the previous lot. I wouldn’t add eius even in brackets and certainly not suam. (And in C17 I repeat domum not domi.)

Haven’t properly gone through the new lot, but shouldn’t 11 be Num without non?
Likewise 17.
16 (or 15?) surely A quo rather than Quo.
18 word order non est mulier cuius. And I’d keep Ea. (And in 12 tibi carissimum better order, but now I’m being picky.)

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