Thucydides 1.85.2 need help on grammar

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hlawson38
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Thucydides 1.85.2 need help on grammar

Post by hlawson38 »

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... apter%3D85

Archidamus, a Spartan leader, is concluding a speech. After recommending that the Spartans meet the Athenian threat by a combination of parley and preparing for war, then:
ταῦτα γὰρ καὶ κράτιστα βουλεύσεσθε καὶ τοῖς ἐναντίοις φοβερώτατα.
Trial translation:

You will resolve things most strongly, and for the adversaries most fearfully.

I take the meaning of βουλεύσεσθε to be "you will resolve things". I'm guessing that there are assumed verb forms for "ταῦτα γὰρ καὶ κράτιστα . . . καὶ τοῖς ἐναντίοις φοβερώτατα." But I can't go any further.
Hugh Lawson

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bedwere
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Re: Thucydides 1.85.2 need help on grammar

Post by bedwere »

At first sight, I would consider κράτιστα and φοβερώτατα adjectives referring to ταῦτα.

You will resolve on these things both very strong and very frightening for the adversaries.

hlawson38
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Re: Thucydides 1.85.2 need help on grammar

Post by hlawson38 »

I asked for help on this snip:
. ταῦτα γὰρ καὶ κράτιστα βουλεύσεσθε καὶ τοῖς ἐναντίοις φοβερώτατα
bedwere replied:
bedwere wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:53 pm At first sight, I would consider κράτιστα and φοβερώτατα adjectives referring to ταῦτα.

You will resolve on these things both very strong and very frightening for the adversaries.
Oh, thank you bedwere; I can't evaluate your reply, but to me it makes a lot more sense than my effort!
Hugh Lawson

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Re: Thucydides 1.85.2 need help on grammar

Post by mwh »

Yes, ταῦτα (which you missed in your translation Hugh) is an internal accusative with βουλεύσεσθε, and the adjectives (which I do not take as adverbial but as superlative adjectives) are predicative with ταῦτα.
Steven Lattimore well translates: ”These plans will give you the most strength and make you the most formidable to your enemies.” The language is heightened and dense, making a fitting conclusion to this very Thucydidean speech.

hlawson38
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Re: Thucydides 1.85.2 need help on grammar

Post by hlawson38 »

mwh wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:31 pm Yes, ταῦτα (which you missed in your translation Hugh) is an internal accusative with βουλεύσεσθε, and the adjectives (which I do not take as adverbial but as superlative adjectives) are predicative with ταῦτα.
Steven Lattimore well translates: ”These plans will give you the most strength and make you the most formidable to your enemies.” The language is heightened and dense, making a fitting conclusion to this very Thucydidean speech.
Many thanks mwh. I lost my way on this sentence. I must study the internal accusative.
Hugh Lawson

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