Aorist active of γιγνώσκω

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.
Post Reply
Asterisk1234
Textkit Member
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Toronto

Aorist active of γιγνώσκω

Post by Asterisk1234 »

I find that "εγνων" is the first person singular of the Aorist active of γιγωοσκω . I can't figure out the rest of the conjugation. Could someone please complete the conjugation for all persons and both numbers.

Thanks to all.
ὁ Βίος Χαλεπός

User avatar
Constantinus Philo
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 925
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:04 pm

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Constantinus Philo »

you may google it typing conjugation ἔγνων
Semper Fidelis

User avatar
seneca2008
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1796
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:48 pm
Location: Londinium

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by seneca2008 »

ἔγνων
ἔγνως
ἔγνω

ἔγνωτον (dual 2)
ἐγνώτην (dual 3)

ἔγνωμεν
ἔγνωτε
ἔγνωσαν
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

Asterisk1234
Textkit Member
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Asterisk1234 »

Seneca, thank you for your reply, but ἔγνωσαν seems out of line, isn't it from a first (weak) aorist, and isn't ἔγνων a second (strong) aorist?
ὁ Βίος Χαλεπός

Hylander
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Hylander »

ἔγνωσαν is correct. See Smyth sec. 682. ἔγνων is an athematic aorist: the endings are added directly to the stem, in this case -γνω-, without the ε/ο theme vowel. ἔγνωσαν is like ἔστησαν, ἔβησαν, ἑάλωσαν and intransitive/passive aorists in -ην/-θην, with 3rd plurals in -ησαν. The 3rd plural ending -σαν, however, was apparently taken from the sigmatic (first) aorist, at least in Attic-Ionic.
Last edited by Hylander on Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Walderman

Asterisk1234
Textkit Member
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Asterisk1234 »

Thank you Bill,

And my apologies to Seneca. I should have known better than to question his expertise.

André
ὁ Βίος Χαλεπός

Hylander
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Hylander »

Just revised my previous post. Aren't Greek verbs fun?
Bill Walderman

User avatar
seneca2008
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1796
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:48 pm
Location: Londinium

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by seneca2008 »

André

All "expertise" should be questioned. :D

Your question was a good one and Bill has provided a good answer which others will find helpful.

Greek verbs just seem to get more and more complicated.............
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

markcmueller
Textkit Member
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 11:43 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by markcmueller »

I have an Italian book of Greek verbs which calls the athematic aorist the "3rd aorist". The term is likely to be universally condemned, but I find it useful.

Mar

Hylander
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Hylander »

Athematic aorists are traditionally lumped together with thematic aorists as "second aorists," i.e., non-sigmatic aorists, as Smyth does. But it's better to think of three distinct types of aorists: sigmatic (e.g., ἔλυσα), thematic (e.g., ἔλιπον, with theme vowel ε/ο), and athematic (e.g., ἔβην, with personal endings added directly to the stem).

"Third aorist" as a designation for the athematic type, recognizing that it's a separate type from the second, thematic aorist, is not a bad idea, and certainly shouldn't be universally condemned, but I think it's better to use the descriptive terms "sigmatic," "thematic," and "athematic."
Bill Walderman

Hylander
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Aorist active of γιγωοσκω

Post by Hylander »

Greek verbs are indeed complicated, but with not too much effort it's possible to see more or less regular patterns underlying many of the apparently wild irregularities. Smyth describes these patterns in a way that is difficult to penetrate. The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek does a somewhat better job.

But to see the underlying patterns with more clarity it's necessary to have some familiarity -- not necessarily a lot -- with Proto-Indo-European and the key sound changes that occurred in pre-Greek. Sihler's A New Comparative Grammar of Greek and Latin presents the material, but not in a user-friendly manner. Personally, I find two works in French, although slightly out of date, most useful and user-friendly: Michel Lejeune Phonétique historique du grec et du mycenéen, and Pierre Chantraine, Morphologie historique du grec.

Sihler's discussion of PIE verbs §§ 407 ff. is more up-to-date than Chantraine, though more difficult to follow. In my view a comparative grammar treating Greek and Latin together in the same work was a mistake. By focusing exclusively on Greek, the two French works present the essential facts in a way that's easier to follow.
Bill Walderman

User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
Posts: 4815
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: Aorist active of γιγνώσκω

Post by jeidsath »

I learned these as "root aorists." Including these with the "2nd aorists" goes back to the ancient grammarians. Whatever floats a person's boat for labelling though. For people who are first trying to learn to read/write the language well, I suggest Morwood's presentation:
Spoiler
Show
Image
Image
Compare, of course, to the 2nd aorist of ἵστημι
Spoiler
Show
Image
And contrast to the short vowel plural forms of the aorists of τίθημι, ἵημι (ε+ε), δίδωμι.

The Cambridge Grammar is going to hopelessly muddle any student on all this. I thought that Hylander was recommending it as an improvement to Smyth here (which could use it), and I was going to post images of its sections as another alternative. But now that I look, I think Hylander must have been speaking very generally. I'm looking at 13.40 and 13.41.

EDIT: Changed the thread topic from γιγωοσκω to γιγνώσκω
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

phalakros
Textkit Fan
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:51 pm

Re: Aorist active of γιγνώσκω

Post by phalakros »

Hylander wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:54 pm Athematic aorists are traditionally lumped together with thematic aorists as "second aorists," i.e., non-sigmatic aorists, as Smyth does. But it's better to think of three distinct types of aorists: sigmatic (e.g., ἔλυσα), thematic (e.g., ἔλιπον, with theme vowel ε/ο), and athematic (e.g., ἔβην, with personal endings added directly to the stem).
I agree with Hylander that the three-fold categorization athematic root aorist, thematic aorist, and sigmatic aorist is best. Linguistically, a more accurate categorization is five-fold:

(1) athematic root aorists (eg ἔδυν, ἔστην)
nb. κ-aorists are a development of root aorists (eg ἔδωκα)

(2) thematic aorists:
(2a) regular thematic aorists built on the zero grade of the root (eg ἔλιπον)
(2b) rare thematic aorists built on the full grade of the root (eg ἔπεσον)

(3) reduplicated thematic aorists (eg ἤγαγον)

(4) sigmatic aorists (eg ἔλυσα)
nb. this also includes verbs like ἔμεινα < *ἔμενσα where the σ is lost through regular sound change

(5) aorist passive stem with -(θ)η- (eg ἐλύθην)

[See Willi for more...much more]

Pedagogically speaking, 2a-b and 3 can be usefully categorized together under the heading “thematic aorists" and aorist passives treated separately.

As Hylander notes, the major problem with 1st/weak and 2nd/strong aorist is that it conflates root aorists and thematic aorists. “3rd aorist” for root aorists is better, but they have long been called 2nd/strong aorists and it is more helpful to use descriptive morphological names.
Last edited by phalakros on Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
Posts: 4815
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: Aorist active of γιγνώσκω

Post by jeidsath »

Best for what purpose though? Linguistic taxonomy? Historical linguistics? Throwing all that at a student trying to learn the forms of γιγνώσκω for the first time is surely a strange approach.

IMO, learning to read Greek is likely going to benefit from a much simpler classification than what you would wish to use for either of those.

Besides, these idealized taxonomies only approximate real usage, over-emphasizing genetic relationship in a big real-world language that was also influenced by processes of assimilation, analogy, and euphony that don't always fit the picture so well, and certainly require a more complex conjugation description for even this form of this one verb.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Post Reply