τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

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Constantinus Philo
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τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

Post by Constantinus Philo »

Some editions have it without τό which I think may be more correct.
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phalakros
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Re: τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

Post by phalakros »

I think the reading with τό is preferable. Some mss omit it. The idiom usually has the article (though it’s not impossible without it), and it’s easier to imagine it being omitted rather than added.

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Constantinus Philo
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Re: τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

Post by Constantinus Philo »

The Montanari dictionary has it without τό, I have not found it in LS. Baiily has both which he translates as immediately (à l'instant).
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Re: τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

Post by phalakros »

See LSJ s.v. ἀπό II. It’s like eg τὸ νῦν, τὸ κατ’ ἀρχάς τὸ λοιπόν and several other idiomatic expressions with the neuter definite article. I think the reading with τό is clearly better in this case.

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Re: τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

Post by Constantinus Philo »

thanx
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Re: τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε: 5., 1., 6

Post by jeidsath »

"Clearly better" seems strong. Based on what precisely? Not stating an argument is playing it safe. (We avoid hiatus with ἔσῃ τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε = ἔσῃ τἀπὸ τοῦδε, but Xenophon doesn't seem to worry so much about that elsewhere. Earlier: δέκα ἔτη ἀφ’ οὗ ἂν ἐκ παίδων ἐξέλθωσι.)

But from what I can see, it's not really any special idiom. Just normal ἀπὸ + gen. That would have been τούτου if it were some moment under discussion, and τοῦδε because it's this moment right now right here. "From now on". The τὸ + ἀπὸ τοῦδε makes it an accusative of extent of time. Either way, ἀπὸ τοῦδε or τὸ ἀπὸ τοῦδε, it's an adverbial expression meaning precisely the same thing: "from now on". "Immediately" is not quite the meaning here, despite Bailly, who is referring to Ajax 1376, where "from now on" also looks like the meaning to me.

EDIT: This morning, the day after writing the above, I came across "τὸ δ᾿ ἀπὸ τούτου", reading an extract from True History. There it refers to the sea battle just described, a "moment under discussion" as I put it above, and so ἀπὸ τούτου.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

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