Best Greek textbook for beginners?

[JasonBaker]

If money is of no concern, what s the most enjoyable way to learn ancient Greek at home, learning all the grammar and everything? I don't want to do any private lessons online with other people, just self-learning resources. Thanks!

[Villanelle]

If money is of no concern, what s the most enjoyable way to learn ancient Greek at home, learning all the grammar and everything? I don't want to do any private lessons online with other people, just self-learning resources. Thanks!

Hi Jason,

Reading Greek by JACT is a good start if you are interested in Attic Greek. It comes in 3 texts which also includes an Answer Key.

Let me know what you end up choosing!

Cheers.

[Arallyr]

If money is of no concern, what s the most enjoyable way to learn ancient Greek at home, learning all the grammar and everything? I don't want to do any private lessons online with other people, just self-learning resources. Thanks!

Hi Jason,

Enjoyable is such a subjective feeling. If money is really of no concern, you might want to sample several texts and then decide which works best for you.

For myself, I have been slowly working my way through Mastronarde's Attic Greek, and thoroughly enjoying it. It is grammar and drill heavy, but I discovered that I seem to learn best in that environment.

I know a few people that prefer Athenaze, but I just could not work with it. I did not enjoy the slow pace and explanation-lite presentation of the grammar.

I have done some comparison of Mastronarde with Hansen and Quinn, and imo Mastronarde does a better job of explaining grammatical concepts.

I have not used JACT.

I'd recommend sample all the texts you can and decide which one engages your interest.

[seneca2008]

I use JACT with a class I have started and they find it quite enjoyable. I used an older version of it to learn Greek and then we switched to what was book 2 of Athenaze. Either are good textbooks. People on this forum have used Mastronade. It is a thorough introduction to attic grammar. The drawback is that there are not enough reading passages. Mastronade could easily be combined with either of the other two textbooks.

Ultimately the best textbook is the one you like most. Good luck.

[JasonBaker]

Thanks for the recommendations guys!

[MeatySpoon]

I believe the most common recommendation nowadays would be the Athenaze series, particularly the Italian ones that work as a LLPSI-ish style. Accompany that with free online resources such as chapter readings from Scorpio Marcianus (Latin pronunciation Youtube guy) and others (Trivium Triodos, Audiobooks, Polis videos, etc.) you can get quite a lot of input and begin reading Plato fluently after the first half of the second book. I recommend getting the textbooks and readers (Italian Amazon ships internationally for around 80$ for these), not the exercise books. I would also get a reference grammar such as CGCG. I would also suggest picking a text you really want to read. Get a LOEB or OCT copy of it, depending on how difficult the text is, and measure your progress by trying to read it every once in a while during your journey. It motivates you and keeps you on track. Anything else really depends on what you want to read, as you proceed resources get more particular on dialects or areas (Homer vs Koine Bible, etc). The most important thing is consistent input with progressive difficulty. Writing and speaking are great tools, but I would wait until you've finished the textbooks.
PS: Don't bother with the second half of the second volume of IT Athenaze, it is mostly Thucydides and Aristophanes and really at that point you might as well read anything else.
All the best to you in your odyssey.

[hlawson38]

If money is of no concern, what s the most enjoyable way to learn ancient Greek at home, learning all the grammar and everything? I don't want to do any private lessons online with other people, just self-learning resources. Thanks!

Here is my experience, Jason. I studied Mastronarde, then I started studying real Greek texts, and I discovered that I had forgotten at least 50% of what I studied in Mastronarde. I consider that normal.

[JasonBaker]

Great recommendations, thanks guys. Now I know what is what, with some books being like the Wheelocks of Greek and others just like LLPSI. It worked out best for me with Latin when I learned the noun declensions and basic grammar first thru those type of books and then used LLPSI Familia Romana along with the companion book that explained it, and of course all the online exercises that accompanied the book.

Thanks again guys.

[tomroper]

May I offer John Taylor’s books, Greek to GCSE Parts 1 and 2, and Greek Beyond GCSE? Admirably clear. (GCSE is the examination taken by English school students at the age of 15 or 16)

[JasonBaker]

I previewed all the different books online and they all had things I enjoyed in their formats, but for different reasons. In the end I ended up getting Athenaze along with the teacher's manual and workbook off ebay used along with a new copy of the Italian edition of it. The main reason I chose it in the end is because of all the audio material available for it by Luke Ranieri and others. There are even Anki, Quizlet and Memrise audio decks.

Learned the Attic and Lucian pronunciation rules, so now I am ready to party I guess. Thanks again for the recommendations.

[jeidsath]

Some textbooks that I enjoyed using for self-study:

Crosby & Schaeffer's Introduction to Greek
Burnet's Greek Rudiments
Peckett & Munday's Thrasymachus
Rouse's First Greek Course (+ Greek Boy + Vocabulary + Lucian + Reader)
Morwood's Grammar and Dictionary

[naturalphilosopher]

For Attic, I like James Turney Allen's First Year of Greek. The 1st edition is public domain and freely available for download off the internet archive. There is also a newer edition which is still in print. It uses real Greek excerpts from ancient authors starting at lesson 1. It has connected passages within the 1st 10 lessons.

The downsides are the lack of answer key and audio.

[Fletcher]

...free online resources such as chapter readings from Scorpio Marcianus (Latin pronunciation Youtube guy) and others (Trivium Triodos, Audiobooks, Polis videos, etc.)

Does Trivium Triodos have recordings of the Athenaze readings? I don't see any on their website or YouTube channel.

[JasonBaker]

...free online resources such as chapter readings from Scorpio Marcianus (Latin pronunciation Youtube guy) and others (Trivium Triodos, Audiobooks, Polis videos, etc.)

Does Trivium Triodos have recordings of the Athenaze readings? I don't see any on their website or YouTube channel.

The official Athenaze website has recordings for both books in Koine pronunciation but only the first couple chapters are free I think. Also Luke Ranieri's patron site has recordings for both the UK and Italian Athenaze books as well as the Reading Greek and Greek Alive books for a small patron fee. His recordings are done with the Lucian pronunciation. Luke also has the first 5 or 6 chapters recorded free on YouTube for Athenaze done with the Archaic pronunciation.

[Fletcher]

...free online resources such as chapter readings from Scorpio Marcianus (Latin pronunciation Youtube guy) and others (Trivium Triodos, Audiobooks, Polis videos, etc.)

Does Trivium Triodos have recordings of the Athenaze readings? I don't see any on their website or YouTube channel.

The official Athenaze website has recordings for both books in Koine pronunciation but only the first couple chapters are free I think. Also Luke Ranieri's patron site has recordings for both the UK and Italian Athenaze books as well as the Reading Greek and Greek Alive books for a small patron fee. His recordings are done with the Lucian pronunciation. Luke also has the first 5 or 6 chapters recorded free on YouTube for Athenaze done with the Archaic pronunciation.

Thanks, I am aware of these recordings you mention but I'm still looking for some that use "Archaic"/reconstructed Ancient Greek instead of Koine. I'm still a newbie to Greek so I'm not totally clear yet on whether "Lucian" is basically just a rebranded version of Koine. For some reason that's the general impression that I got (maybe because Luke Ranieri seems to have a habit of rebranding things and putting his name on it, such as his slight tweaking of The Dowling Method and rebranding it as "The Ranieri-Dowling Method", but I digress...). I know that Luke Ranieri pushes Lucian pronunciation pretty hard but it's nice to see that at least those first 5 chapters he put on YouTube are done with a "Classical Attic" pronunciation. I'm waiting for him to finish that project before I consider becoming a patron.

There's another set of recordings of Athenaze 1 on YouTube, the channel page is "mielprades". The reader has quite an obvious Mexican accent, but I still find that infinitely less offensive to the ear than hearing Ancient Greek read with a heavy American or British accent (see The Great Courses or the official JACT recordings, respectively). And I'm pretty sure that "mielprades" used a reconstructed pronunciation on those recordings, although I'm still just learning to tell the difference.

[JasonBaker]

Does Trivium Triodos have recordings of the Athenaze readings? I don't see any on their website or YouTube channel.

The official Athenaze website has recordings for both books in Koine pronunciation but only the first couple chapters are free I think. Also Luke Ranieri's patron site has recordings for both the UK and Italian Athenaze books as well as the Reading Greek and Greek Alive books for a small patron fee. His recordings are done with the Lucian pronunciation. Luke also has the first 5 or 6 chapters recorded free on YouTube for Athenaze done with the Archaic pronunciation.

Thanks, I am aware of these recordings you mention but I'm still looking for some that use "Archaic"/reconstructed Ancient Greek instead of Koine. I'm still a newbie to Greek so I'm not totally clear yet on whether "Lucian" is basically just a rebranded version of Koine. For some reason that's the general impression that I got (maybe because Luke Ranieri seems to have a habit of rebranding things and putting his name on it, such as his slight tweaking of The Dowling Method and rebranding it as "The Ranieri-Dowling Method", but I digress...). I know that Luke Ranieri pushes Lucian pronunciation pretty hard but it's nice to see that at least those first 5 chapters he put on YouTube are done with a "Classical Attic" pronunciation. I'm waiting for him to finish that project before I consider becoming a patron.

There's another set of recordings of Athenaze 1 on YouTube, the channel page is "mielprades". The reader has quite an obvious Mexican accent, but I still find that infinitely less offensive to the ear than hearing Ancient Greek read with a heavy American or British accent (see The Great Courses or the official JACT recordings, respectively). And I'm pretty sure that "mielprades" used a reconstructed pronunciation on those recordings, although I'm still just learning to tell the difference.

Does Trivium Triodos have recordings of the Athenaze readings? I don't see any on their website or YouTube channel.

The official Athenaze website has recordings for both books in Koine pronunciation but only the first couple chapters are free I think. Also Luke Ranieri's patron site has recordings for both the UK and Italian Athenaze books as well as the Reading Greek and Greek Alive books for a small patron fee. His recordings are done with the Lucian pronunciation. Luke also has the first 5 or 6 chapters recorded free on YouTube for Athenaze done with the Archaic pronunciation.

Thanks, I am aware of these recordings you mention but I'm still looking for some that use "Archaic"/reconstructed Ancient Greek instead of Koine. I'm still a newbie to Greek so I'm not totally clear yet on whether "Lucian" is basically just a rebranded version of Koine. For some reason that's the general impression that I got (maybe because Luke Ranieri seems to have a habit of rebranding things and putting his name on it, such as his slight tweaking of The Dowling Method and rebranding it as "The Ranieri-Dowling Method", but I digress...). I know that Luke Ranieri pushes Lucian pronunciation pretty hard but it's nice to see that at least those first 5 chapters he put on YouTube are done with a "Classical Attic" pronunciation. I'm waiting for him to finish that project before I consider becoming a patron.

There's another set of recordings of Athenaze 1 on YouTube, the channel page is "mielprades". The reader has quite an obvious Mexican accent, but I still find that infinitely less offensive to the ear than hearing Ancient Greek read with a heavy American or British accent (see The Great Courses or the official JACT recordings, respectively). And I'm pretty sure that "mielprades" used a reconstructed pronunciation on those recordings, although I'm still just learning to tell the difference.

Lucian pronunciation is actually pretty different from the normal Buth Koine that most Koine speakers seem to use. There is a lot more variety of sounds in Lucian than in Koine so confusing words and endings doesn't happen as much. Also, unlike Erasmian, Lucian is a historically used pronunciation spoken in some places around 200 A.D. if memory serves me right. Also Luke has stated he had no desire in Lician actually to replace Buth Koine, rather he would like it to replace Erasmian as an all purpose pronunciation and I am all for that. Just my opinion but to me if a person primarily only cares about Biblical Koine then I think Buth Koine pronunciation is the way to go. If someone mainly only cares about Homer and Attic stuff than Archaic would maybe be the best pronunciation to pursue. If one wants to get into all of Greek literature from Homer all the way thru Koine but doesn't want to take the time or effort to learn multiple pronunciations then that I think is where Lucian should shine and replace Erasmian as an all purpose pronunciation. Just my meaningless newbie opinion though.

There really does seem to be a void though in beginner Ancient Greek textbooks that include well done recordings. I own the JACT recordings myself and found the thick British accents distracting. I wish there was more recorded material geared towards beginners with proper recordings. Maybe the publishers think that because Latin and Greek are "dead" languages that no one cares. There seems to be a growing number of people though, myself included, who want to learn these "dead" languages as if they were living languages, even if our knowledge of their past pronunciations may be imperfect. It makes the process more enjoyable and aids in language memory.

Anyhow, good-luck to you and let us know what you end up finding if anything.

[Fletcher]

Luke has stated he had no desire in Lucian actually to replace Buth Koine, rather he would like it to replace Erasmian as an all purpose pronunciation and I am all for that. ... Lucian should shine and replace Erasmian as an all purpose pronunciation. Just my meaningless newbie opinion though.

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. As one newbie to another, I could certainly get on board with phasing out Erasmian. If it's is responsible for the bland recordings of people plodding through Greek with their American/British/Australian accents fully in tact then Erasmian can't be replaced soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

...even if our knowledge of their past pronunciations may be imperfect.

And yes, I'm already seeing that it's easy to become a bit too distracted by attempting to get the "perfect pronunciation" - and while I understand that a decent pronunciation is certainly important here I think it's something that we shouldn't obsess about it too much.

I wish there was more recorded material geared towards beginners with proper recordings.

I can certainly share whatever materials I come across, as sometimes it takes a bit digging.

One thing I can suggest is the recordings of Beresford & Douglas's "A First Greek Reader" - have you already come across these? There are two recordings actually: one is on YouTube (channel name is "Asier Mp") and another is on ancientgreek.eu (you have to buy it but you can choose the price, so technically you can buy it for only $1, but personally I think we should support the website by choosing a little bit higher price - he is doing some really great work.)

And another suggestion I have is something by bedwere. He has a lot of recordings out there but one that seems particularly good for beginners is entitled "Orbis Pictus Græce". It's originally a text that was used to teach Latin during the Reformation era, and its technique proved so popular that people translated it into many different languages. A PDF to go along with the recordings can be found here

[JasonBaker]

One thing I can suggest is the recordings of Beresford & Douglas's "A First Greek Reader" - have you already come across these? There are two recordings actually: one is on YouTube (channel name is "Asier Mp") and another is on ancientgreek.eu (you have to buy it but you can choose the price, so technically you can buy it for only $1, but personally I think we should support the website by choosing a little bit higher price - he is doing some really great work.)

And another suggestion I have is something by bedwere. He has a lot of recordings out there but one that seems particularly good for beginners is entitled "Orbis Pictus Græce". It's originally a text that was used to teach Latin during the Reformation era, and its technique proved so popular that people translated it into many different languages. A PDF to go along with the recordings can be found here

Thanks for the links. Those are some good finds!

[DucuntFata]

I apologise for sounding overly enthusiastic, but the enthusiasm is real. While my class went along with "Athenaze", I skipped it and used instead "Learn to read Greek" by Keller & Russell, with which I had an immensely positive experience. It is inspired, one might say, by "Greek: An intensive course" by Hansen & Quinn, but with more focus on thoroughness than speed.

The approach is traditional, and the workbooks are massive. At times it gets somewhat tedious, of course, but I found at the end that I felt no need for later review - as I did when I learned latin, and had used a mediocre course and later reviewed with "Latin: an intensive course". The textbook too is filled to the brim with readings, and you will have read extended, continuous passages of unadulterated Homer, the tragedians, Plato, Xenophon, Thucydides, Aristophanes, Isocrates and a couple of others in addition to shorter readings from the whole ancient Greek era. Epigrams by Callimachus, even some Pindar.

Reading "Anabasis" and Plato’s "Ion" afterwards was piece of cake.

[epikeia]

If money is truly no object, I suggest doing what I did about 10 to 12 years ago: buy as many texts as you can find and then switch back and forth between them. There are many different approaches to learning Greek. There are free downloadable materials on this site. The John Taylor GCSE books (and the online groups that read and complete an exercise weekly: https://www.quasillum.com/greek/greek-activities.php) are excellent. I began with those.

If I get to a level I feel is too challenging for me, it is refreshing to switch to a different text series. As a note, I found I don't like Athenaze much. but Taylor and the JACT materials are very similar and manageable in pacing. Mastronarde for me is not -- if you want the feeling of "it's all Greek to me", try him. (Maybe it's because he's at Berkeley and feels like we are all intellectual athletes? I do like the online practice he includes.) Learn to Read Greek by Keller and Russell (Yale Press) is yet another set worth checking out, although their early focus on both memorization and accentuation is tough (I ignore and move on). They use original Greek phrases and texts exclusively, and present the goal of learning to read Greek quickly.

My "guilty pleasure" texts are both by Frank Beetham: 1) Beginning Greek with Homer, and 2) Learning Greek with Plato. I'm guessing he's not used a lot because of his method: He starts both books with the basics of grammar, and then presents a few sentences of either Odyssey V (1st bk) or first passages of Plato's Meno (2nd book), heavily footnoted. Why do I enjoy these? Beetham's footnotes are very chatty - I feel like I'm just sitting listening to someone who enjoys his subject. If I can't sleep I'm often up in the night reading Beetham on Homer.

In addition to all the texts downloaded and/or purchased, I bought a boxed set of Greek vocabulary cards for practicing. I pull out different groups of words to practice with, and bought a box of blank cards so I could add words not in that set. I have an Oxford Greek Dictionary and a copy of Liddell, and I use the word study tool on the Perseus site constantly. Greek Stories: A GCSE Reader(also by Taylor) is great for general practice. I have several grammar reference books.

So where am I now, after all these years? Not as far as I should be, maybe, but I do this just for fun. I'm retired, and without all the pressures of schooling. Right now I'm working through Greek Beyond GCSE (Taylor again) and Attica: Intermediate Classical Greek (Claxton). Lucian's A True Story is still very difficult but I am now much better at generally parsing the meaning of a sentence.

For me, learning Classical Greek is both a fun hobby and an intellectual challenge. I have my sights set on reading original texts effortlessly. Someday!