Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome
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Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by AmyOfRome »

If you're not familiar with Apicius, his is supposedly the earliest extant cookbook in the world. There is a good English translation with a lot of extra info and historical notes available on Amazon, link and it also has nice illustrations by the translator. The Vatican has one copy and photos of pages are available online. It is separated into several books, like poultry, seafood, etc. Some weird things (to us) like dormice and "cow matrix."

I have been looking up the original Latin recipes and looking through this translation, which has useful notes comparing the various versions of the cookbook (which were copied numerous times and had various omissions and such) and making some of the things. But since he didn't do modern-type recipes, more suggestions and guidelines, I am making modern versions of some and in other cases, just writing out some recipes in Latin for the hell of it.

Things aren't perfect yet but that's also why I mention that I'm relearning after 30 years of other languages, so I will edit things more in the future.

"ne lactucae laedant" was my favorite recipe title, but my guess is that it is supposed to prevent indigestion, in the dressing. In any case, it's very useful to read this for historical purposes and for learning to use spices and such, and mixing different flavors.

Working on a "pullum frontoniarum" recipe. Apicius doesn't give whole recipes like Julia Child or something, he just lists ingredients, leaving out huge amounts of info (which he assumes are obvious to professional chefs, whereas modern recipes are intended for people who don't necessarily know how to make the thing!) so I am also modernizing in that way by giving amounts and ratios of ingredients and slight adjustments, and substitutions for things I don't have or know what they are. The gold leafing isn't in there (the rose petals are!) but it is my nod to Commodus. He'd like it, Marcus Aurelius would hate it.

This is all I have written out so far:
"gallinaceum partim coque, pullum "parboil," 15-20 min. Hodie Cornish game hen, pullum parvum, utor. "

It's intended for a whole large chicken but i was only cooking for myself, so I got a cornish game hen. I should've cooked it longer also, skin should've been crispier. I am still learning the ways of saying portions of things for cooking also.

Image

So in any case, I am trying to use these and non-Apicius recipes for videos, as well as making some recipe cards in Latin. Greek salad isn't taken from anywhere in particular, it's just the way I make it myself.

ImageMy Greek salad recipe in Latin

My Greek salad recipe in English

These need more editing but it's a start.

If you want to know what a weirdo I am, I was passing out Latin/English blueberry muffin recipes at a local art festival (I was an art vendor, but i was stealthily sneaking these things in with the art).
ImageMy blueberry muffins recipe in Latin
blueberry muffins video

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Villanelle
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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by Villanelle »

This is Amazing Amy keep it up! I will be reading this with great interest ( and may even try a recipe or 2) :D
Have you seen Sally Grainger's book which goes through Apicius for a modern cook with some selected recipes?
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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:11 am This is Amazing Amy keep it up! I will be reading this with great interest ( and may even try a recipe or 2) :D
Have you seen Sally Grainger's book which goes through Apicius for a modern cook with some selected recipes?
thanks! I will have to check that out as well!

I have dried natural sausage casings coming in the mail today (you have to soak them in water to rehydrate), going to try Lucanian sausages next.

All I have written so far:
Hodie botellum facio.
Neque myricam neque rutam graveolens habeo; origanum, petroselinum crispum, et coriandrum habeo. Foeniculum vulgare, paprikam, allium, Salviam officinalis, piper, garum, cuminum, oxycoccum.

nuces pini non habeo, itaque nuces helianthi utor.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempir ... sages.html

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by Villanelle »

I'd be interested to hear how the sausages go so please keep me in the loop with their progress and end result :D

Also don't know if you know of Max Miller but he's on You Tube, Instagram etc and he cooks recipes from history and I've watched a lot of his stuff with Ancient Roman cooking. He did a great video on his take of making Garum which is a condiment that has always been of interest to me. Sally Grainger also has a recipe for Garum which is a bit simpler but along the same lines. Have you had a crack at making Garum yet?
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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:35 am I'd be interested to hear how the sausages go so please keep me in the loop with their progress and end result :D

Also don't know if you know of Max Miller but he's on You Tube, Instagram etc and he cooks recipes from history and I've watched a lot of his stuff with Ancient Roman cooking. He did a great video on his take of making Garum which is a condiment that has always been of interest to me. Sally Grainger also has a recipe for Garum which is a bit simpler but along the same lines. Have you had a crack at making Garum yet?
I found his channel and subscribed, thanks! Today I cooked 2 sausages and cooked the rest as 2 small patties, I froze the other 2 large sausages.

I worried they weren't seasoned enough but I could've gone with more pepper and herbs and spices really. Also substituted sunflowers seeds for pine nuts, which I've done in other things.

"nuces pini non habeo, itaque nuces helianthi utor."

I haven't made garum, I always substitute with Asian types of fish sauce for now!

Here is the pork and roughly-chopped herbs and so on:
Image

effercio carnem in tegumen:

I bougth dried sausage casings online, you have to soak them in warm water. I made a video of all this but haven't written things out or edited yet.

I have no sausage-making equipment so I stuffed the casings by hand, could've been worse I guess but I overstuffed a bit. No bayberries so I chopped dried cranberries (since I've heard of people putting blueberries in breakfast sausage!) A friend of mine linked me to a really bizarre sausage channel, Ordinary Sausage, where the guy makes them out of crickets, spray cheese, and literally anything.

Image

So for next time (since I have 26 feet of sausage casing and used about 2 feet), I will go crazy with the seasonings and herbs, lol! I consistently forget to ever buy pine nuts, but I have substituted sunflower seeds in things like pesto sauce, and it'll do if that's all you have.

Canis farcīmen manducare vult. Augie got a couple of thin slices.
Image

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by Villanelle »

Hey Amy these sausages look delicious! Were they tasty ( I know you said they needed more seasoning ) and did Augie like them? I never met a dog who didn't like sausage :lol:

I've pasted here Sally Grainger's take on Garum which as mentioned is simplified, compared to Max Miller. Glad you subscribed to his channel as he does a lot of amazing recipes from all of history. What do you think of this version of Garum? And what will you be cooking next? I am loving reading your posts of Roman culinary exploits :D

Adapted fish sauce
1 l. carton white grape juice
1 bottle ‘Oyster brand’ fish sauce or a pale variety
of fish sauce
Tip the grape juice into a large saucepan and bring to a gentle
simmer. Cook at the lowest setting for however long it takes to
reduce by half. This is never set in stone as grape juice can have a
higher or lower sugar content. Cool and store. You can use this
for other recipes in Apicius as well as for your fish sauce. The
ratio that works for me is two-thirds fish sauce to one-third grape
syrup. This produces a blend that is neither too salty, nor has it
lost too much of the cheesy/meaty elements that you need. You
might find that you need to adjust this ratio depending on the type
of fish sauce that you have. The darker varieties tend to be saltier
but unfortunately this is not always the case! You might try half
and half to achieve the correct blend. Experiment! The initial cost
is low and well worth the effort in the long run.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Yes it seems like grapes/grape juice were used in place of how we would use sugar today in a lot of cases, reduced grape juice, sometimes honey. I mashed white grapes to make the sauce for the chicken. But thanks I will have to try this out as well! I also used a bit of honey for that, because different recipes make different suggestions and I had both honey and white grapes on hand. (No grape juice, so of course I videoed myself mashing grapes haha).

I put more salt on them, sausages should be salty, I'll do better next time since I have so much casing left. Of course the dogs wanted more but they got a bit on top of their dog food. XD

I am thinking of making ancient Roman bread, there are many recipes for this online, with twine around it and bread stamps and lines cut with a knife so it looks decorative. I keep forgetting to buy yeast though.

https://angiesweb.com/bread-of-ancient-rome/

still writing out the pullum frontonianum recipe

-Dimidium de poculo de oleo olivae
-unum poculum de vino rubro
-1 lingula de sale
-1/4 poculum de aneto
-1/3 poculum de flore, de rosā
-cepa viridis vel porrum, 1/4 poculum
-sal + piper
-mel
-2 lingulae semina coriandri


gallinaceum in aqua partim coquo, scillicet gallinaceum "parboil," anglice.

gallinaceum in ollam loco, cum iure. ius est: oleum olivae, vino rubro, sal, piper, anethum, rosae siccaneae, mel, et semina coriandri.

aurum utor sed non in praescripto fuit; Commodus pullum cum auro voluisset, neque Marcus Aurelius. Commodus aurum in capillo locābat.


Wasn't sure how to say rose petals, original says "satureiae," which I didn't know, but I might use "rosae siccaneae" also

haven't gotten to the grapes or the rest of the instructions! I'm making a tunic and toga for Augie/Augustus, his brother Odin has one already!

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by Villanelle »

The bread sounds fascinating so let me know when you have finished it :D . Max Miller made some so this is another take on the many you have found online so far https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw2qrt6tOKw

I am searching for a chicken or beef recipe to cook in the upcoming school holidays with my son who is learning Latin at school. If you finish your recipe for the cornish hen we may give that a go.

Cheers and keep up the cooking :D
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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:08 am grape
syrup. ....
re: this part of the bit you quoted from Granger: I used this method to make "must" also the first step in winemaking, think of barefoot folks back in the day squishing grapes with their feet, haha. Except I used a fork and didn't make much, but reduced it by half in a saucepan. Good way to add sweetness to a lot of sauces though!

Image

Have had a crazy busy week but am working on finishing up some of these things and working on new ones, especially bullae/lunulae pendants.

I've just been using this as a fish substitute:
Image

From Vehling's book but there are many recipes online to compare and contrast for more modern versions I'm looking at also:
Image

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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What an interesting thread. I lent my copy of Apicius to someone many years ago and never got it back. I must get a replacement.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by AmyOfRome »

Thanks, and yes I would like to see what other versions are out there, this one has a lot of text at the beginning, I just take it places and read it like a novel rather than like a recipe book.

Working on editing my Lucanian sausages and Pullum Frontonianum videos in the meantime. My uncle was upset that I didn't save him any sausages, but I didn't know he'd be in town so not really my fault. I have all this sausage casing now so I can make them again! No need for expensive sausage equipment if you have finely ground meats to begin with, I just stuffed them manually also.

The salad dressings seem to be fairly familiar oil/vinegar dressings. Lately I've started using a cheese grater on fresh ginger, adds a bit of a kick to the dressing. The ancient Romans thought this was medicinal, in the same sense that my mother would give me ginger ale when I had a stomach ache as a kid, I suppose! Not sure if it worked, but I did like having my own big bottle of ginger ale. :lol: They talk about taking a spoonful of dressing on its own after a meal, along with putting it on the salad normally.

I recall "salt fish without fish" which is liver with garum, being quoted in Ecce Romani I or II, which I used as a kid, but I can't find it in here.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:13 pm
Villanelle wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:08 am grape
syrup. ....
re: this part of the bit you quoted from Granger: I used this method to make "must" also the first step in winemaking, think of barefoot folks back in the day squishing grapes with their feet, haha. Except I used a fork and didn't make much, but reduced it by half in a saucepan. Good way to add sweetness to a lot of sauces though!

Image

Have had a crazy busy week but am working on finishing up some of these things and working on new ones, especially bullae/lunulae pendants.

I've just been using this as a fish substitute:
Image

From Vehling's book but there are many recipes online to compare and contrast for more modern versions I'm looking at also:
Image



Sally Grainger talks about a grape must concoction as well so you are on the right track if you are using it to sweeten things! She also recommends the use of any type of light or dark Asian Fish sauces to use if you are feeling lazy :D

I am still trawling for some recipes to make as not sure any of the Grainger ones grab our fancy to cook. Funny to hear about your uncle wanting some of the sausage though - if you could post some to me in Australia I'd be a willing taster of your cooking! :lol:

Not related to cooking at all but have you ever heard of or indeed read Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series of books which starts off with one titled "The First Man in Rome"? I loved the series and she does often describe meals and cooking and culinary matters interspersed with historical moments. There's mention of a fish that resided at the bottom of the Tiber and had a diet of fairly disgusting food which was a delicacy for the Roman aristocrats.
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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Nice! But yeah, I am reminded of things like how some people want alternatives to cane sugar and now places sell agave nectar for this purpose; cooking down grapes just gives you fructose.

I have an uncle who is a chef but he isn't around much, I have shown him some Apicius though! The other is more adventurous and buys me Korean food sometimes, since it's hard to find here because I live in the middle of nowhere.

Not familiar with that one, no! I will look for some more books to search through, have been watching some YouTube stuff for ideas in the meantime.

I had a person on Facebook ask for salad dressing recommendations, and if she was talking about Italian or Greek, I had to butt in and say how easy it is to make your own there, and will eventually write something up re: Apicus' "ne lactucae laedant," in the sense of "what is salad dressing? and how do you make it?" because I just mix my own on my salad if I'm making oil/vinegar. Wishbone Italian mihi placet, but it's easier to just make some and then you can experiment with the different kinds of vinegars and amounts of spices until you have something you like better.

Image

you don't need the gold leaf but apicius says to dress it up nicely, so i did what i did, haha

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by Villanelle »

Hey Amy,

Have you made the bread yet?
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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:33 am Hey Amy,

Have you made the bread yet?
I am not currently ambitious enough to do a sourdough starter, but I did buy some yeast yesterday for regular bread. I bought some 00 flour and I can't remember why, it's extra fine for pizzas and such. I will try a regular loaf of this and get back to you about it! A friend of mine doesn't believe you can stamp bread like that, haha, I am intending to prove him wrong!

Image
Just my first attempt, here is some dough

Ecce pānis! Well, almost. I will try different methods, I need to figure out what I am doing. Will do some leavened and unleavened, etc

Edit: It didn't look pretty, panis meus non pulcher est, but I put honey on it and I would compare the bread and honey thing to pancakes. will try spelt flour as well

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:18 am
Villanelle wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 1:33 am Hey Amy,

Have you made the bread yet?
I am not currently ambitious enough to do a sourdough starter, but I did buy some yeast yesterday for regular bread. I bought some 00 flour and I can't remember why, it's extra fine for pizzas and such. I will try a regular loaf of this and get back to you about it! A friend of mine doesn't believe you can stamp bread like that, haha, I am intending to prove him wrong!

Image
Just my first attempt, here is some dough

Ecce pānis! Well, almost. I will try different methods, I need to figure out what I am doing. Will do some leavened and unleavened, etc

Edit: It didn't look pretty, panis meus non pulcher est, but I put honey on it and I would compare the bread and honey thing to pancakes. will try spelt flour as well
So was the texture of the loaf above more like pancakes even after you baked it?
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by AmyOfRome »

No, it was hard and crunchy, though I should have baked it more. Was afraid of burning it. Just the mixture of bread and sweetness.

Some stuff I've written so far, will get to recipe shortly:

Hodie panem quadratem facio. In Pompeiis, in anno septuāginta novem, Mons Vesuvius erupit. Multi homines mortui sunt. Res multae servavērunt, exempli gratia panis quadratus antiquus.

Panis quadratus nomine "panis quadratus" quod quattour incisi in pane sunt. Itaque octo partes. Pizza imitat. Panem in octo partes dirrumpere potes.

Panis primus meus non pulcher erat. Edi cum melle. Bene erat. Panis cum melle...quomodo dicis "pancakes"...imitat. Sed duro est non est mollis. Frangit.

farinam, salem, aquam, et fermentum misceo et transverso. filum circum panem ligo. Quattuor incisi in panem facio. dīdo semina sesamae, semina papaveris, et faenicula in panem.

ede cum melle, cum iure vel vino.

Image
Allowing this dough to rise right now, attempt #2. Rather than a stamp I cut a "#" into it with a knife

Edit: this one was an utter failure visually and brought shame upon my ancestors. At least it will still taste like bread!

Image

I'll try again with different flour. Baking is not my specialty. I can do pizzas and muffins and that's about it.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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I am slow, so too late to edit my post, thus I am commenting again. Here is my short YouTube video if you want to see the chicken in action (lol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR8kNZ3o65k

Some notes: some of the steps and ingredients are not clear/not spelled out in the original, so we have to make stuff up there, he says "defrito," and I assume something like using "must" by cooking down wine or grape juice until the amount is halved, this was a way Romans would add sweetness since they didn't have cane sugar; grape juice or honey. They used salt and sweetness together a lot. Sometimes he stuffed poultry with prunes, I used cranberries here because it's what I had on hand. Roses were also used in rose wine, which apparently had a laxative effect(?).

It's been a crazy few weeks and I deleted the last version of this I did.

I will maybe make more bread and sausage now that the weather is cooler, and I can end up with more video that way. I talked to my uncle who is a chef, and he said that yes, indeed, you want to put in a WHOLE LOT of spices when you're making sausage. I need to redo that, the recipe doesn't say how much and I underdid it, tasted like pork chops mostly. it was fine, but should've been better!

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:34 pm I am slow, so too late to edit my post, thus I am commenting again. Here is my short YouTube video if you want to see the chicken in action (lol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR8kNZ3o65k

Some notes: some of the steps and ingredients are not clear/not spelled out in the original, so we have to make stuff up there, he says "defrito," and I assume something like using "must" by cooking down wine or grape juice until the amount is halved, this was a way Romans would add sweetness since they didn't have cane sugar; grape juice or honey. They used salt and sweetness together a lot. Sometimes he stuffed poultry with prunes, I used cranberries here because it's what I had on hand. Roses were also used in rose wine, which apparently had a laxative effect(?).

It's been a crazy few weeks and I deleted the last version of this I did.

I will maybe make more bread and sausage now that the weather is cooler, and I can end up with more video that way. I talked to my uncle who is a chef, and he said that yes, indeed, you want to put in a WHOLE LOT of spices when you're making sausage. I need to redo that, the recipe doesn't say how much and I underdid it, tasted like pork chops mostly. it was fine, but should've been better!

Great video Amy I enjoyed that! It's interesting the way the Romans seemed to like mixing their sweet and savoury like that. Not sure if that is my cup of tea but I aim to try the meatballs soon so will let you know how that goes.

Your uncle does sound right with the spice ratio in the sausages, I guess it depends on your initial quantity of meat and if you are using bread or other fillers to bulk up the meat.

Other than a do over of the Lucanian sausage can you share with us what your next ancient Roman cooking venture will be?

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

Post by AmyOfRome »

thanks. personal preference also, i suppose, i always put a bit of salt in desserts and sugar in savory things and soups. see also salted caramel and such, i guess!

but yes i suppose the pine nuts or sunflower seeds or bread will require more seasonings, just a thing you have to practice to get better at i suppose!

i wanted to do the salt fish without fish because the name is funny (it's liver anyway), but may just go with an easy thing like "lactucae non laedant" or whatever it's called, the salad that helps with indigestions (by way of using ginger, I think. fresh ground ginger in oil/vinegar dressing is delicious though and i will keep doing that).
**********

also, many of you are probably familiar with eating cooked spinach with garlic and olive oil, and if you like spinach and salty things and soy sauce, this is just the Korean version of that, which I make because I had a Korean roommate in college and decided it's a tasty addition to spinach, working on Latin recipe but basing it on this online recipe:
https://www.maangchi.com/recipe/sigumchi-namul

siguemchi namul just means spinach side dish.

spinaceam coque. ~1 min. spinaceam sicca; cum manu exurge et praeseca cum cultro. quoque cepam viridem et allium praeseca et misce cum 2 lingulis de iure de soy, seminibus sesamae, oleo sesamae (oleum olivae uti potes si oleum sesemae non habes)

homines non coreanices saepe Spinaciam oleraceam cum allio et oleo coquunt, sed homines coreanices saepe sigeumchi namul faciunt, sigeumchi namul "spinach side dish" anglice significat

maangchi silgochu utitur sed non necesse est, piper rubrum vel nihil uti potes, sed pulcher est quod piper ruber et cepa et spinacia virides sunt. silgochu est piper ruber, offulae de pipere siccaneo, quomodo dicis "garnish?" garnish est.

spinacia cum iure de soy mihi maxime placet, credo, melior est quam spinacia sine soy sauce


video: https://youtu.be/kgUpusZdQio

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Okay I worked on the lucanian sausage thing more, maybe will do a video soon but here is some text:

Edit: video here

First, Apicius' recipe:

LVCANICAE
lucanicas similiter ut supra scriptum est. [lucanicarum confectio]: teritur piper cuminum satureia ruta petrosilenu condimentum bacae lauri liquamen et admiscetur pulpa bene tunsa ita ut denuo bene cum ipso subtrito fricetur; cum liquamine admixto pipere integro et abundanti pinguedine et nucleis inicies in intestinum perquam tenuatim productum et sic ad fumum suspenditur.


now my nonsense, link to another book I bought that someone told me has good additional texts about the recipes but it's in German:

Hodie emi alium librum de Apicio nomine "De re coquinaria/Über die Kochkunst: Lateinisch/Deutsch" Latine et germanice est. sed non iam habeo, iam habeo solum unum librum de Apicio, anglice. tegumen siccaneum de amazon dot com habeo, tegumen in aquam pono et tegumen fit mollior. iam carnis in tegumen effercīre possum.

sed primus facio fartum. [filling lol]

Neque myricam neque rutam graveolens habeo; origanum, petroselinum crispum, et coriandrum. Foeniculum vulgare, paprikam, allium, Salviam officinalis, piper, garum, cuminum, oxycoccum [i've seen blueberry sausage, thus, i tried dried cranberries!] habeo. est bene VALDE magnam partem de herba et de conditurā uti

nuces pini non habeo, itaque nuces helianthi utor. avunculus meus archimagister est et quoque dicit, nuces helianthi uti potes.

omnes misceo et carnem in tegumen, in intestinum pono. cum manu. maschinam de botello non habeo. Apicus scripsit "intestinum" sed "tegumen" sonit mihi melior.

foras, bottellum in fumam pono. cum ligno. sabor de fumo in botello bonus est. necesse est satis herbam et condituram uti. aliter solus carnis est neque botellus, botellus condituram habet. apicius scripsit, lucanicae "in fumam suspenditur"

apicius scripsit, botellus multum pinguem et nuces habet, "pingues et nuclei abundant."

botellum torqueo et iam quattuor partes sunt, |sausage links| facio anglice

iam botellum habeo. euge. iam botellum coqui possum vel botellum congelāre possum.

botellum cum cepa et pipere coquo et edo, canes quoque partem de botello edunt, sapor bonus est.

botellus explodit quod nimis carnis in intestino erat, doleo

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Here’s another recipe, this one in ancient Greek. I haven’t tried it, and it doesn't sound very appetizing, but at least it doesn't have garum. Good for halloween perhaps? (But beware lead poisoning.)

λαβὼν μυγαλὸν ἐκθέωσον πηγαίῳ ὕδατι καὶ λαβὼν κανθάρους σεληνιακοὺς δύο ἐκθέωσον ὕδατι ποταμίῳ καὶ καρκίνον ποτάμιον καὶ στῆρ ποικίλης αἰγὸς παρθένου καὶ κυνοκεφάλου κόπρον, ἴβεως ὠὰ δύο, στύρακος δραχμὰς βʹ, ζμύρνης δραχμὰς βʹ, κρόκου δραχμὰς βʹ, κυπέρεως Ἰταλικῆς δραχμὰς δʹ, λιβάνου ἀτμήτου δραχμὰς δʹ, μονογενὲς κρόμμυον· ταῦτα πάντα βάλε εἰς ὅλμον σὺν τῷ μυγαλῷ καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς καὶ κόψας καλλίστως ἔχε ἐπὶ τῶν χρειῶν ἀποθέμενος εἰς πυξίδα μολιβῆν.

Translation (slightly abridged):
Take a field-mouse, two moon beetles, a river crab, the fat of a spotted virgin goat, dung of a dog-faced baboon, two ibis eggs, 2 drachms of storax, 2 dr. myrrh, 2 dr. saffron, 4 dr. Italian galingale, 4 dr. unbroken frankincense, a single onion.
Throw all into a mortar, grind well and keep ready for use by storing in a lead box.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Lol! Yeah some of them... don't sound so appetizing anymore. Which is why i was going to do the "ne lactucae laedant" one, because all it's really talking about is regular old Greek or Italian oil/vinegar dressings on salads, and talking about the digestive benefits of ginger. I planted some ginger.

Also, if you do like ginger and have the root on hand and make dressings, grinding a bit of fresh with the cheese grater is excellent and makes you not want to use the powder ever again.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Thanks for putting up with my little bit of fun, Amy. The “recipe” actually goes along with a magician’s spell from greco-roman Egypt, and calls for first deifying the fieldmouse and beetles. Apparently this sort of stuff was taken seriously by some poor souls.

Whenever I can I shop at Chinese markets, and I always make a point of buying fresh ginger. Unfortunately it won’t grow where I live—too cold.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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mwh wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:25 pm Thanks for putting up with my little bit of fun, Amy. The “recipe” actually goes along with a magician’s spell from greco-roman Egypt, and calls for first deifying the fieldmouse and beetles. Apparently this sort of stuff was taken seriously by some poor souls.

Whenever I can I shop at Chinese markets, and I always make a point of buying fresh ginger. Unfortunately it won’t grow where I live—too cold.
I was just looking up some stuff about beetles in ancient Egypt.

Still waiting on this new version of Apicius before I do anything else, maybe it's shipping from overseas, I don't know, it's taking its time!

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:50 am Okay I worked on the lucanian sausage thing more, maybe will do a video soon but here is some text:

Edit: video here

First, Apicius' recipe:

LVCANICAE
lucanicas similiter ut supra scriptum est. [lucanicarum confectio]: teritur piper cuminum satureia ruta petrosilenu condimentum bacae lauri liquamen et admiscetur pulpa bene tunsa ita ut denuo bene cum ipso subtrito fricetur; cum liquamine admixto pipere integro et abundanti pinguedine et nucleis inicies in intestinum perquam tenuatim productum et sic ad fumum suspenditur.


now my nonsense, link to another book I bought that someone told me has good additional texts about the recipes but it's in German:

Hodie emi alium librum de Apicio nomine "De re coquinaria/Über die Kochkunst: Lateinisch/Deutsch" Latine et germanice est. sed non iam habeo, iam habeo solum unum librum de Apicio, anglice. tegumen siccaneum de amazon dot com habeo, tegumen in aquam pono et tegumen fit mollior. iam carnis in tegumen effercīre possum.

sed primus facio fartum. [filling lol]

Neque myricam neque rutam graveolens habeo; origanum, petroselinum crispum, et coriandrum. Foeniculum vulgare, paprikam, allium, Salviam officinalis, piper, garum, cuminum, oxycoccum [i've seen blueberry sausage, thus, i tried dried cranberries!] habeo. est bene VALDE magnam partem de herba et de conditurā uti

nuces pini non habeo, itaque nuces helianthi utor. avunculus meus archimagister est et quoque dicit, nuces helianthi uti potes.

omnes misceo et carnem in tegumen, in intestinum pono. cum manu. maschinam de botello non habeo. Apicus scripsit "intestinum" sed "tegumen" sonit mihi melior.

foras, bottellum in fumam pono. cum ligno. sabor de fumo in botello bonus est. necesse est satis herbam et condituram uti. aliter solus carnis est neque botellus, botellus condituram habet. apicius scripsit, lucanicae "in fumam suspenditur"

apicius scripsit, botellus multum pinguem et nuces habet, "pingues et nuclei abundant."

botellum torqueo et iam quattuor partes sunt, |sausage links| facio anglice

iam botellum habeo. euge. iam botellum coqui possum vel botellum congelāre possum.

botellum cum cepa et pipere coquo et edo, canes quoque partem de botello edunt, sapor bonus est.

botellus explodit quod nimis carnis in intestino erat, doleo
Hey Amy,

I watched the video and you mentioned adding more spice, herbs, and general flavourings to this batch of Lucanian sausages. Did it make a difference in terms of taste? Last time you mentioned it mostly tasted like pork and was on the plain side.

Are you waiting on the ancient version of Apicius or a modern rendering of it (Like Sally Grainger's) ? And what recipe are you thinking of attempting next?

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:06 am

Hey Amy,

I watched the video and you mentioned adding more spice, herbs, and general flavourings to this batch of Lucanian sausages. Did it make a difference in terms of taste? Last time you mentioned it mostly tasted like pork and was on the plain side.

Are you waiting on the ancient version of Apicius or a modern rendering of it (Like Sally Grainger's) ? And what recipe are you thinking of attempting next?

Cheers.
I'm waiting on one with the original Latin and notes in German right now, supposed to be here in a week or so. Notes are great, I've seen things saying "just use "rocket" as one of the greens," and I thought, what the heck is rocket? Here I had some growing in my garden but it's called arugula here and rocket in the UK.

I'll probably do an easy thing like salad dressing before that.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:18 pm
Villanelle wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:06 am

Hey Amy,

I watched the video and you mentioned adding more spice, herbs, and general flavourings to this batch of Lucanian sausages. Did it make a difference in terms of taste? Last time you mentioned it mostly tasted like pork and was on the plain side.

Are you waiting on the ancient version of Apicius or a modern rendering of it (Like Sally Grainger's) ? And what recipe are you thinking of attempting next?

Cheers.
I'm waiting on one with the original Latin and notes in German right now, supposed to be here in a week or so. Notes are great, I've seen things saying "just use "rocket" as one of the greens," and I thought, what the heck is rocket? Here I had some growing in my garden but it's called arugula here and rocket in the UK.

I'll probably do an easy thing like salad dressing before that.

We call that type of lettuce rocket here in Australia as well. I didn't know it had another name in the US!

Awaiting updates on the Salad dressing with great interest :D
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:35 pm

We call that type of lettuce rocket here in Australia as well. I didn't know it had another name in the US!

Awaiting updates on the Salad dressing with great interest :D
I had to look it up:
“Arugula” is an English corruption of the word in some Italian dialect, perhaps from Lombardy where they call it “arigola.” In Latin, “eruca” was a type of cabbage, and the English word “rocket”, the German word “Rauke” and the Italian “rucola” can be traced back to that word"

"Once again, “arugula” is taken from Italian and is popular in the US, while “rocket” is simply an English version of the French word “roquette”"

" it was mostly used among Italian-Americans, who used the word "rucola" or "arugula" to refer to the plant, depending on what part of the Old Country they came from. Rucola is the Standard Italian word for the plant today, but the OED notes that the word in Calabria (the toe of the boot) is aruculu."
https://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen ... rd-arugula

Eruca vesicariais the scientific name, and I guess with all those related words it makes some sense how it could start with eruca and end up with things like rucola, arugula, roquette, and rocket. Have never heard "rocket" before I bought the Apicius book!

I forgot half the veggies I wanted (maybe I SHOULD throw in some rocket/arugula! lol) and ginger root, so I have to go back to the store in the next couple of days.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Eruca vesicariais the scientific name, and I guess with all those related words it makes some sense how it could start with eruca and end up with things like rucola, arugula, roquette, and rocket. Have never heard "rocket" before I bought the Apicius book!

Hey Amy,

As long as no one's calling it a "verruca" I'm happy :lol:

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Image
so finally the book arrived! Here's an image from a left-side page, the right-side pages are in German and there is an appendix and notes in the back! I like this one better because the other just had the Latin titles! and most of the titles were, I'm not joking, called "aliter!" :lol:

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:51 pm Image
so finally the book arrived! Here's an image from a left-side page, the right-side pages are in German and there is an appendix and notes in the back! I like this one better because the other just had the Latin titles! and most of the titles were, I'm not joking, called "aliter!" :lol:
Hi Amy,

So is the salad dressing the next on the list that you will make as per your previous notes? I love a good salad so if it's a good dressing I too will give it a go!

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Image
Villanelle wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:05 am
Hi Amy,

So is the salad dressing the next on the list that you will make as per your previous notes? I love a good salad so if it's a good dressing I too will give it a go!

Cheers.
Thanks for the suggestion and yes, I did that last night but am still writing it up. Until I get that done, here are some of my notes breaking down the original Apicius recipe which is in bold here:

XVIII. Intuba et lactugae.
1. Intuba ex liquamine et oleo modico +medere+ cepa concisa. pro lactucis vero hieme intuba ex embammate vel melle et aceto acri.

2. Lactucas cum oxyporio et aceto et modico liquamine.

3. Ad digestionem et inflationem et ne lactucae laedant: cuminum unc. II, gingiber unc. I, rutae viridis unc. I, dactilorum pinguium scripulos XII, piperis unc. I, mellis unc. IX, cuminum aut Aethiopicum aut Syriacum aut Libycum. tundes cuminum et postea infundes in aceto. cum siccaverit, postea melle omnia comprehendes. cum necesse fuerit, dimidium cochlearum aceto et liquamine modico misces aut post cenam dimidium cochlearem accipies.


1. salad, i guess, i break this down better in the video, basically we're talking vinaigrettes, start with base of oil and vinegar (3:1), add salt, pepper, spices to taste. He uses honey but we can use whatever sweetener; he mentions broth and garum in places rather than vinegar, i'd decide this is whatever you like here, cumin, ginger.

2. you can sautee the onion in oil and infuse the lettuce with honey and vinegar, i assume again, we're discussing how to best eat salad here

3. "ad digestionem" for digestion and "ad inflationem" for bloating and/or flatulence
-cuminum aut Aethiopicum aut Syriacum aut Libycum-or whatever cumin you have, or if you're my old roommate who hated it, leave it out!
-gingiber-ginger-fresh and grated is best
-rutae viridis-rue, haven't ever tried it, i think you can order it dried online though
-dactyli-dates-i would compare this to the dressings these days with raspberry juice, also compare with the honey for sweetness
-[sal], piper-in some recipes apicius uses broth or garum to add saltiness, but salt would also work
-mel (or whatever sweetener you have on hand, or leave it out!)
-acetum (remember there are many types of vinegar! experiment, but i like red wine vinegar)
-lĭquāmĕn-sauce or liquid, incl fish sauce
-take a half spoonful for digestion
oleum-i use the handy old olive oil, but it's not the only option, sesame oil is used more in Asian salads, etc for example, i use it sometimes in cooked spinach

so basically what we have is there: there are 2 main types of dressings. vinaigrette (i can't spell this word) and creamy, which is like the vinaigrette but with dairy lol. you basically need the oil and vinegar (though Apicius substitutes broth and garum sometimes), something salty (salt is fine with me), black pepper, then the optionals would be things like: mustard powders, garlic, onions/onion powder, red peppers, cumin, ginger, honey/sugar/fruit juices, depending on whether you want something like a honey/mustard dressing or something more garlicky, etc. still working on it!

Recipe: https://internetkindness.com/Recipes/ius.jpg
PDF with notes: https://internetkindness.com/Recipes/HarmlessSalad.pdf
video: https://youtu.be/N1lvpzpG3qk

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Hi Amy,

I enjoyed your video as always and it's inspired me to think about some more flavoursome additives to my usual dressing of olive oil, lemon, herbs and salt ( sometimes a touch of chilli for zing also) We have summer ( allegedly ) coming here and I am hosting a Christmas lunch for my family in law so I am going to experiment a bit before then to come up with something new and zesty for the lunch :D

In 2019 before the world went covid crazy I was in the UK for 2 month visiting family in Scotland and England. One day we took a day trip from Edinburgh to see what's left of Hadrian's Wall at my son's request. That day trip also included a visit to Roman Vindolanda which in it's time was the northern most city of the Roman Empire. Well worth a trip if you are ever in the neighbourhood! :D Whilst wandering among the thousands of amazing artifacts I spotted some cutlery and eating equipment and saw to my great delight and wonder a few sets of Roman oyster tongs. As someone who loves oysters I was fascinated to see the delicately carved implements and thought about how they obtained and kept fresh oysters when they were so far inland. They certainly knew a trick or two about food and how to prepare it and we're still fascinated 1800 years later!

Keep cooking and inspiring us with your recipes and food journey through Rome!

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Thanks and good to hear!

Sounds fun! I keep meaning to make a video about the Roman ruins in Vienna, Austria since I have some video I took!

On the topic of spices, I attended a city event-related dinner last night. Potatoes, turkey, corn...but NO SALT or PEPPER. I was devastated, haha. Should've brought my own...

I made crab cakes using some Apicius parts but haven't edited that stuff yet.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:12 am Thanks and good to hear!

Sounds fun! I keep meaning to make a video about the Roman ruins in Vienna, Austria since I have some video I took!

On the topic of spices, I attended a city event-related dinner last night. Potatoes, turkey, corn...but NO SALT or PEPPER. I was devastated, haha. Should've brought my own...

I made crab cakes using some Apicius parts but haven't edited that stuff yet.
Hi Amy,

Let me know when you do post the video of Roman ruins in Vienna! I haven't been there so would be interested to see them.

Next time definitely BYO spices and seasonings. Was that for a Thanksgiving dinner?

Crab cakes would be DELICIOUS! Please do share the recipe/ video for that when you can. Did you used tinned crab?

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:40 am
Hi Amy,

Let me know when you do post the video of Roman ruins in Vienna! I haven't been there so would be interested to see them.

Next time definitely BYO spices and seasonings. Was that for a Thanksgiving dinner?

Crab cakes would be DELICIOUS! Please do share the recipe/ video for that when you can. Did you used tinned crab?

Cheers.
Yes, my uncle bought a bunch of crab in a tin for my grandma, who didn't want it, so I figured I would use it for a video. It was good though. I got parsley and panko crumbs.

Yes, it was a local dinner for an association that does things like gives out free blankets and such to those in need, my neighbor runs the thing so i was talked into being there.

I just recorded a video in Latin about the salad dressing again, trying to remember all the terms for spices through repetition I suppose! Balsamic vinegar rather than red wine vinegar this time.

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Image

I am working on a pizzelle recipe video in Latin also, still researching exactly how old they are, but some things say they are related to ancient Roman crustula/cookies. In any case, they are tasty snacks! My mom has an electric pizzelle maker; the ancient Romans did not!


pizzelles sunt crustula italica.
------
dua pocula de farina
unum poculum de sacharro
unum poculum de butyro
duae lingulae de pulvere pistorii
sex ovae
una lingula de anetho vel vanilla vel extracto de citro
lingula de oleo
dimidia lingulam de sale
--------
necesse est būtȳrum tepidum habere. ova sunt tepida, non frigida. facilior est omnes miscere. misce in scaphio et in maschinam cum lingula pōnĕ. coque.

Pizzelle crustula antiqua sunt. Cannolis cum pizzeles facere potes sed necesse est explēmentum facere. habeo formas de cannolis, ut cannolis facere, tubi sunt, necesse est pizzeles circum tubos ponere.

homines pizzelles in feria faciunt, nativitatis, Pascha, inter alia

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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AmyOfRome wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:36 pm Image

I am working on a pizzelle recipe video in Latin also, still researching exactly how old they are, but some things say they are related to ancient Roman crustula/cookies. In any case, they are tasty snacks! My mom has an electric pizzelle maker; the ancient Romans did not!


pizzelles sunt crustula italica.
------
dua pocula de farina
unum poculum de sacharro
unum poculum de butyro
duae lingulae de pulvere pistorii
sex ovae
una lingula de anetho vel vanilla vel extracto de citro
lingula de oleo
dimidia lingulam de sale
--------
necesse est būtȳrum tepidum habere. ova sunt tepida, non frigida. facilior est omnes miscere. misce in scaphio et in maschinam cum lingula pōnĕ. coque.

Pizzelle crustula antiqua sunt. Cannolis cum pizzeles facere potes sed necesse est explēmentum facere. habeo formas de cannolis, ut cannolis facere, tubi sunt, necesse est pizzeles circum tubos ponere.

homines pizzelles in feria faciunt, nativitatis, Pascha, inter alia
Hey Amy how did these end up tasting?

Cheers.
Villanelle

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Re: Recipes in Latin-Original and Apicius stuff

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Villanelle wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:27 am Hey Amy how did these end up tasting?

Cheers.
good but i like the anise ones and i use a lot of anise, more than you're supposed to usually. you can also put in lemon or orange zest with lemon/orange extract for other flavors, anise is more traditional I think. (my mom tells me I like "old person flavors," anise, clove, etc. lol).

they are crispy but are soft right after you take them off the iron, so i've made cannoli with them by wrapping them around a cannoli form (small metal tube) right away, then they harden in that shape. I have never made vanilla but the internet tells me it's possible!

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