JWW 702

Use this forum to organize a study group around a specific textbook. Before starting, you might wish to advertise your plan on other forums first.
Post Reply
Charlie Parker
Textkit Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:58 pm
Location: Toronto

JWW 702

Post by Charlie Parker »

I am having quite a bit of trouble with some sentences in this exercise. Here is no. 9: τῇ γαρ πρόσθεν ἡμερᾳ πεμπων βασιλεὺς τὰ ὁπλα παραδιδοναι ἐκέλευεν. So far I've got "…the king was ordering that (they) surrender (their) arms." I cannot make out the first part. The king is sending? Sending what? Sending word? Previously, earlier in the day? I feel lost.
11. προς δὲ βασιλέα πέμπων ἠξίου Κῦρος ἀδελφὸς ὢν ἀυτοῦ δοθῆναι οἷ ταύτας τὰς πόλεις μᾶλλον ἥ Τισσαφένην ἄρχειν αὐτῶν. "When he sent word to the king, Cyrus expected that because he was his brother he would be given all these cities instead of them being ruled by Tissaphernes."

Aetos
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: JWW 702

Post by Aetos »

Hi Charlie,
Here's the context, from the Anabasis, 2.3.1 :

ὃ δὲ δὴ ἔγραψα ὅτι βασιλεὺς ἐξεπλάγη τῇ ἐφόδῳ, τῷδε δῆλον ἦν. τῇ μὲν γὰρ πρόσθεν ἡμέρᾳ πέμπων τὰ ὅπλα παραδιδόναι ἐκέλευε, τότε δὲ ἅμα ἡλίῳ ἀνατέλλοντι κήρυκας ἔπεμψε περὶ σπονδῶν

πέμπων (according to the LSJ) is being used absolutely, which in this case means it does not have an object, so literally it would be "he was sending and ordering". What's going on is that Artaxerxes is changing his behaviour. The day before he had been demanding surrender (πέμπων ... ἐκέλευεν= had been sending and ordering), but frightened by the Greeks' approach, he now wanted to arrange a truce.
Remember, the present tense of the participle is being used here to denote aspect, not time. The idea is that this was the state of affairs for most of the previous day-this had been going on most of that day. Just about anyone can explain this better than I can, but hopefully this is enough for you to make sense out of it.

User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
Posts: 4829
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: JWW 702

Post by jeidsath »

Bare ἐκέλευε sounds like he's right there. πέμπων ἐκέλευε emphasizes that he's not. πέμπων characterizes the king, as an adjective would. He is messaging (IM'ing we'd say now?), not present.

You may get a better sense of the second sentence, especially ἄρχειν, if you read it without the μᾶλλον ἢ Τισσαφέρνην, which is not necessary to the rest of the structure. ἄρχειν is not a participle applying to Tissaphernes. Nor is ἢ the article (would be τοῦ applied to the infinitive) if that is how you were reading it.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

User avatar
jeidsath
Administrator
Posts: 4829
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν

Re: JWW 702

Post by jeidsath »

Actually, I am wrong to take the ἄρχειν as expressing purpose of δοθῆναι, both infinitives depend on ἠξίου, and so no section can be dropped
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Charlie Parker
Textkit Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:58 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: JWW 702

Post by Charlie Parker »

Thank you both very much. It is much clearer to me now. If I could impose on you one more time, Aetos, what is the sense of ὃ δὲ at the beginning. At first I was inclined to take it as ὅδε, the demonstrative pronoun, but there is a space, so I now think it is simple relative pronoun ὅς in the neuter accusative. How do you understand it?

Aetos
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: JWW 702

Post by Aetos »

Hi Charlie,

ὃ δὲ δὴ ἔγραψα ὅτι βασιλεὺς ἐξεπλάγη τῇ ἐφόδῳ, τῷδε δῆλον ἦν.

I agree with your second idea that ὃ δὲ is being used as a relative pronoun; however, I think it's in the nominative, as it is the subject of δῆλον ἦν and refers to the fact that he wrote that the king was frightened by the approach. ὅτι βασιλεὺς ἐξεπλάγη τῇ ἐφόδῳ is virtually parenthetical, so if you read ὃ δὲ δὴ ἔγραψα ... τῷδε δῆλον ἦν the sense is quite clear "in fact(δή), that which I've just written (that the king was frightened by the approach) was evident by the following (situation)." At least that's my sense of it.

Charlie Parker
Textkit Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:58 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: JWW 702

Post by Charlie Parker »

Many thanks. Now it is quite clear to me.

Post Reply