Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

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seneca2008
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Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by seneca2008 »

I dont much care for the meditations, but this stimulating programme about Marcus Aurelius piqued my interest. The letters between Fronto and Marcus Aurelius sound worth looking into, too. I hope you enjoy this programme as much as I did. There is for once a lively disagreement about whether we might think of the mediations as philosophy or as a simple commonplace book which Marcus Aurelius used (in part) to justify his power.

The podcast is here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000sjxt and no doubt in other places.

"Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss the man who, according to Machiavelli, was the last of the Five Good Emperors. Marcus Aurelius, 121 to 180 AD, has long been known as a model of the philosopher king, a Stoic who, while on military campaigns, compiled ideas on how best to live his life, and how best to rule. These ideas became known as his Meditations, and they have been treasured by many as an insight into the mind of a Roman emperor, and an example of how to avoid the corruption of power in turbulent times.

With Simon Goldhill Professor of Greek Literature and Culture and Fellow of King’s College, Cambridge Angie Hobbs Professor of the Public Understanding of Philosophy at the University of Sheffield and Catharine Edwards Professor of Classics and Ancient History at Birkbeck, University of London.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Very good podcast, thanks for posting it.
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Scribo
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

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I dont much care for the meditations, b
Wow, I thought I was alone in that opinion. Yes, I rather dislike them.

Wonderful podcast, however, and it does make me want to dip my toes back in Fronto (perhaps I'll find him more palatable this time around).
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Charlie Parker
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by Charlie Parker »

I first read the Meditations in a translation by Gregory Hays and I didn't much like it. I wondered what all the fuss was about because, of course, Stoicism is very popular today. Lately, I've been reading Pierre Hadot's Introduction aux Pensées de Marc Aurèle : La Citadelle intérieure and I'm really enjoying it. I've set myself the goal of going to the Greek text and translating all the references myself. I thought I would find it easy because it is Koiné and I've read most of the New Testament, but I'm actually finding it rather difficult. Perhaps that's because its philosophy. Xenophon actually seems easier for me. Perhaps because it is narrative.

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jeidsath
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by jeidsath »

If you've read the philosophical parts of Xenophon, you'll find call-outs to him in Aurelius. I came across the other week Socrates' description of the parts of the body working together -- his homily to brotherhood in Memorabilia book 2 -- which Aurelius lifts for the first section of his meditations.

I think that Biblical Koine is easy for most of us because it never tries to be sophisticated. That doesn't make the Koine of more sophisticated authors easy. Not for me, anyway. I actually think it would be quite a challenge to be truly fluent in general Koine, but not very literate in Attic, and vice-versa.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

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AmyOfRome
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by AmyOfRome »

Interesting thoughts here. I have been reading through the Meditations lately and thinking some of it would be applicable today on the internet, his ideas on not gossiping and not taking offense all the time, reframing thoughts in the way of modern cognitive behavioral therapy, almost. And then I found some of it so absurd that I laughed about it, and some of it seemed like gibberish. There is good and bad stuff in there, I think he's like any other philosopher in that way. I just try to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I listened to this podcast recently also before finding this forum and found it enjoyable!

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Antonius Calvus
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by Antonius Calvus »

Scribo wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:42 pm
I dont much care for the meditations, b
Wow, I thought I was alone in that opinion. Yes, I rather dislike them.

Wonderful podcast, however, and it does make me want to dip my toes back in Fronto (perhaps I'll find him more palatable this time around).
I didn't "get it" either. I was expecting a lot when I bought it a couple of years ago as it is often referred to as one of the great works of literature. But I found it dull, disjointed and repetitive. It puzzles me when someone says it's his favorite book (Bill Clinton did if I'm not mistaken).
Fures privatorum furtorum in nervo atque in compedibus aetatem agunt, fures publici in auro atque in purpura.

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AmyOfRome
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Re: Marcus Aurelius In Our Time

Post by AmyOfRome »

Antonius Calvus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:56 pm
I didn't "get it" either. I was expecting a lot when I bought it a couple of years ago as it is often referred to as one of the great works of literature. But I found it dull, disjointed and repetitive. It puzzles me when someone says it's his favorite book (Bill Clinton did if I'm not mistaken).
For me, it's realizing where so many other philosophers stole their ideas from. Immanuel Kant comes to mind. Some passages made me think very much of Nietzsche. And so on. And there is the idea that in bad times, socially or economically or both, people often turn to stoicism so they aren't angry all the time. Many of the concepts of cognitive behavioral therapy were based on stoicism, so I'm inclined to think it works for some, and has worked for many years for a lot of people when it comes to mental health.

Fans of Kurt Vonnegut will also recognize that a lot of Aurelius' thoughts were reinterpreted by Vonnegut, especially in Breakfast of Champions.

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