Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

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Propertius
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Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by Propertius »

Exercises on pg. 166 of the workbook; answers on pg. 31 of the answer key.

382.I.
1. You prefer, you don’t want, you (pl.) want, we don’t want. 2. That he doesn’t want, that we would want, that he prefers. 3. “Don’t”, to want, to have not wanted, to prefer. 4. He wants, you (pl.) prefer, that he would not want, “don’t” (pl.). 5. With the sun rising, the birds began to sing. 6. With the shouts having been heard, the barbarians were refusing to proceed. 7. With Caesar having encourage the legions, the soldiers fought a little braver. 8. With these things having been known, the Helvetii persuaded their neighbors to make a march with them. 9. With the toils having been completed, the soldiers were asking (from) Caesar to give them rewards. 10. With a meeting having been summoned, the chiefs responded in the following way. 11. Since the leader was delaying in the lands of the Helvetii for more days, he set many villages on fire. 12. With the size of the Germans having been known, some of the Romans were afraid. 13. With the merchants having been asked, Caesar could find out no more.

II.
4. Rumore audito Caesar legionibus imperavit ut celerius progrederentur.
7. His relictis, reliqui quam celerrime properaverunt/maturaverunt.

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bedwere
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Re: Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by bedwere »

Propertius wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:17 am

382.I.
1. You prefer (sing.), you do not wish (sing.), you wish, we do not wish. 2. That he may not wish, that we might wish, that he may prefer. 3. Do not wish (sing.), to wish, to have not wished, to prefer. 4. He wishes, you prefer, that he might not wish, do not wish. 5. At the rising of the sun, the birds began to sing. 6. After the shouts were heard, the barbarians refused to proceed. 7. Having Caesar encouraged the legions, the soldiers fought a little braver. 8. As these things had been perceived, the Helvetii persuaded their neighbors to make a march with them. 9. The toils having been completed, the soldiers were asking Caesar to give them rewards. 10. A meeting having been summoned, the chiefs responded in the following way. 11. The leader, while he was delaying in the lands of the Helvetii for more days, set many villages on fire. 12. The size of the Germans having been examined, some of the Romans were afraid. 13. After the merchants had been asked, Caesar could find out no more.

II. 1. nōlēbat, nē mālint, voluērunt. 2. māvīs, ut nōllent, volunt 3. volumus, māluerant, ut mālit.
4. Rūmōre audītō, Caesar legiōnibus imperāvit ut celerius (citius) prōgrederentur. 5. Caesare duce virī iter facere volēbant. 6. Paucī, rūmōribus quōs audierant territī, domī manēre māluērunt. 7. Hīs (Ēīs, Quibus) relictīs, reliquī quam celerrimē festīnāvērunt/properāvērunt/mātūrāvērunt. 8. Caesar, susceptā rē, diūtius morārī nōlēbat.
Some cosmetic changes. Also, since you is actually the second person plural pronoun which is normally used in place of the obsolete singular thou, it makes more sense to indicate when this is the case.

Anto
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Re: Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by Anto »

Hi. Is it possible a second translation, without the subjunctive, like this for example?

382.II.
4. Rūmōre audītō, Caesar legiōnibus celerius prōgredī imperāvit.

bipesimplume
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Re: Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by bipesimplume »

Anto wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:56 am Hi. Is it possible a second translation, without the subjunctive, like this for example?

382.II.
4. Rūmōre audītō, Caesar legiōnibus celerius prōgredī imperāvit.
Hi Anto. Looks like it, but the subject of the infinitive must be in the accusative.
Impero, I command, in model prose takes only the inf. passive or deponent; in SALLUST, HIRTIUS, CURTIUS, TACITUS, and the Poets sometimes the active. (Hannibal) imperavit quam plurimas venenatas serpentes vivas colligi, NEP., 23, 10; Hannibal ordered as many poisonous serpents as possible to be caught alive.
(Gildersleeve & Lodge §532)

Anto
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Re: Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by Anto »

bipesimplume wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:17 pm
Anto wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:56 am Hi. Is it possible a second translation, without the subjunctive, like this for example?

382.II.
4. Rūmōre audītō, Caesar legiōnibus celerius prōgredī imperāvit.
Hi Anto. Looks like it, but the subject of the infinitive must be in the accusative.
Impero, I command, in model prose takes only the inf. passive or deponent; in SALLUST, HIRTIUS, CURTIUS, TACITUS, and the Poets sometimes the active. (Hannibal) imperavit quam plurimas venenatas serpentes vivas colligi, NEP., 23, 10; Hannibal ordered as many poisonous serpents as possible to be caught alive.
(Gildersleeve & Lodge §532)
I think I am wrong. Because "impero" takes the dative of the person ordered + a subjunctive clause of the thing ordered done. While "iubeo" takes the infinitive as in English:
Impero, order (with the dative of the person ordered and a subjunctive clause of the thing ordered done)
N.B, Remember that iubeo, order, takes the infinitive as in English. Compare the sentences:
lubeo eum venire, I order him to come
Impero ei ut veniat, I give orders to him that he is to come
(Benjamin L. D'Oodge, Latin for Beginners, §367)

bipesimplume
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Re: Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by bipesimplume »

Anto wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 3:34 pmI think I am wrong. Because "impero" takes the dative of the person ordered + a subjunctive clause of the thing ordered done. While "iubeo" takes the infinitive as in English
That's probably the construction that's expected in the exercise, which is correct and standard, but not the only one possible. Since you chose progredi, a deponent verb, accusative (legiones) + infinitive is in this case a perfectly acceptable alternative, and that's exactly what your question was about.

Further examples:
This accusative and passive infinitive is also fairly common after impero, instead of the more usual ut-clause: Cic. Cat. 1, 27 nonne hunc in vincla duci imperabis? ‘Will you not order this man’s imprisonment?’ (Woodcock 141 n. (i))
Mox Corneliam maximam virginem, absolutam olim, dein longo intervallo repetitam atque convictam defodi imperavit (Svet.)

Anto
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Re: Translation and Errors in D'Ooge's Lesson LXVII

Post by Anto »

Yes, I see the point. Therefore, my only mistake was to put the dative with the infinitive, instead of accusative (which is subject) with the infinitive. Thank you again.

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