My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

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Aetos
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Thank you, Malo. I know it was a tedious chore, but I thank you and the other folks reading the post thank you. Edit button: as far as I know, it's only available for a limited time after you post your message. Joel can tell you for sure.

You caught quite a few of the typos, here are the ones you still need to fix (don't retype the sentences, just give the correct word):
ὁ φίλιππος -(the phi should be a capital)
"ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ πάτερ· ἰδού, τὸ δεῖπνον φέρ -look at φερ. What should it read?

ὁ οὖν πατὴρ λείπει ὸ ἄροτρον καὶ καλεῖ τὸν δοῦλον - correct "ὸ ἄροτρον"

φέρε τὸ σπέρμα καὶ σπει-ρε -correct σπει-ρε.

πολλοὶ γάρ εἰσιν οἱ λίθοι καὶ μόλις δυνατόν ἐστιν ἀροῦν. Correct "ἀροῦν"

τὸ δὲ ἄροτρον λαίπουσιν ἐν τῷ αγρῷ. Correct "λαίπουσιν".
malolosgreencat wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:19 pm ἐπεὶ δὲ εἰς τὸν ἀγρὸν εἰσβαίνει, τὸν πατέρα καλεῖ καὶ λέγει "ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ πάτερ· ἰδού, τὸ δεῖπνον φέρ. μηκέτι οὖν πόνει ἀλλὰ κάθιζε καὶ δείπνει."
Rough Translation: When and/but into the field into steps/comes to/toward the father calls and says "Come here, o father; look, the dinner I carry; don't any longer so/then work, but sit and eat."
Final translation: And when he steps into the field towards his father he calls and says "Come here, o father; look, I'm carrying the dinner so don't work any longer but sit and eat."
First off, look at the punctuation between εἰσβαίνει and τὸν πατέρα. There's a break here between two clauses. That should be a tip off that these two words may not go together. Secondly, let's look at the first three verbs: εἰσβαίνει, καλεῖ, and λέγει.
Which of these verbs are transitive and which are intransitive? To put it another way, which of these verbs can take a direct object?

Hang in there-you're making an outstanding effort!

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Aetos wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:10 pm Thank you, Malo. I know it was a tedious chore, but I thank you and the other folks reading the post thank you. Edit button: as far as I know, it's only available for a limited time after you post your message. Joel can tell you for sure.

You caught quite a few of the typos, here are the ones you still need to fix (don't retype the sentences, just give the correct word):
ὁ φίλιππος -(the phi should be a capital)
"ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ πάτερ· ἰδού, τὸ δεῖπνον φέρ -look at φερ. What should it read?

ὁ οὖν πατὴρ λείπει ὸ ἄροτρον καὶ καλεῖ τὸν δοῦλον - correct "ὸ ἄροτρον"

φέρε τὸ σπέρμα καὶ σπει-ρε -correct σπει-ρε.

πολλοὶ γάρ εἰσιν οἱ λίθοι καὶ μόλις δυνατόν ἐστιν ἀροῦν. Correct "ἀροῦν"

τὸ δὲ ἄροτρον λαίπουσιν ἐν τῷ αγρῷ. Correct "λαίπουσιν".
malolosgreencat wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:19 pm ἐπεὶ δὲ εἰς τὸν ἀγρὸν εἰσβαίνει, τὸν πατέρα καλεῖ καὶ λέγει "ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ πάτερ· ἰδού, τὸ δεῖπνον φέρ. μηκέτι οὖν πόνει ἀλλὰ κάθιζε καὶ δείπνει."
Rough Translation: When and/but into the field into steps/comes to/toward, the father he calls and he says "Come here, o father; look, the dinner I carry; don't any longer so/then work, but sit and eat."
Final translation: And when he steps into the field towards his father he calls and says "Come here, o father; look, I'm carrying the dinner so don't work any longer but sit and eat."
First off, look at the punctuation between εἰσβαίνει and τὸν πατέρα. There's a break here between two clauses. That should be a tip off that these two words may not go together. Secondly, let's look at the first three verbs: εἰσβαίνει, καλεῖ, and λέγει.
Which of these verbs are transitive and which are intransitive? To put it another way, which of these verbs can take a direct object?

Hang in there-you're making an outstanding effort!
Φίλιππος

φέρω

τὸ ἄροτρον

σπεῖρε

About αροῦν, I don't know anymore. There is a smudge here above the word here in the copy of the book I'm using, so I can't tell if there is supposed to be an accent mark above the a of αροῦν.

λείπουσιν

ἐπεὶ δὲ εἰς τὸν ἀγρὸν εἰσβαίνει, τὸν πατέρα καλεῖ καὶ λέγει "ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ πάτερ· ἰδού, τὸ δεῖπνον φέρ. μηκέτι οὖν πόνει ἀλλὰ κάθιζε καὶ δείπνει."
Rough Translation: When and/but into the field into he steps/comes to/toward, his father he calls and he says "Come here, o father; look, the dinner I carry; don't any longer so/then work, but sit and eat."
Final Translation: When he steps into the field, he calls his father and says "Come here, o father; look, I'm carrying the dinner so don't work any longer but sit down and eat."

καλεῖ, and λέγει are the transitive verbs. εἰσβαίνει is an intransitive verb.

Did I get them right?

Aetos
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

malolosgreencat wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:54 am About αροῦν, I don't know anymore. There is a smudge here above the word here in the copy of the book I'm using, so I can't tell if there is supposed to be an accent mark above the a of αροῦν.
This is my mistake, Malo. In my edition, the word used for "to plow" is ἀροτρεύειν. Apparently, they use ἀροῦν (from ἀρόω) in the second edition. As for the accent mark, the accent is correct. A breathing mark is required over the α, which you supplied originally.
Now would be a good time to memorise the vocabulary and write out the paradigms (ὁ καλὸς ἀγρός and τὸ καλὸν δένδρον) a few times as well as say them aloud.

You wrote: "καλεῖ, and λέγει are the transitive verbs. εἰσβαίνει is an intransitive verb." Correct. καλεῖ, and λέγει are used transitively most of the time as they are being used here. By determining this, you can see that εἰσβαίνει, being intransitive, cannot take a direct object, so τὸν πατέρα must be the object of another verb, which you have identified correctly as καλεῖ.

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Word Building 3B
Give the meaning of each:
1. εἰσπίπτω = Fall into
2. ἐκπίπτω = Fall out of
3. εἰσάγω = Lead into, Take into
4. προσάγω = Lead towards, Take towards
5. προσβλέπω = Look towards

Here's what I did with my checklist. What do you think, @Aetos?

Chapter 1A:
1. Verb Forms: Endings
- Function of endings: Shows things like number and person. They are basically the sets of letters added to a stem.
- Number: Shows how many people are being talked about with the words. Singular, Plural and Dual are what Attic Greek has.
- Person: The Point of View. Consists of 1st Person (I, we), 2nd Person (you), and 3rd Person (they, he/she/it).
- Regular vs. Contract verb: Regular verbs are verbs that has no contraction taking place when an ending is used on them. Contract verbs are verbs that has a contraction taking place when an ending is used on them, taking place between the last vowel of the verb and the first vowel of the ending.
- Irregular verb "to be." Irregular verbs are verbs that don’t follow the rules set by regular and contract verbs. Ἐστι(ν) is one of them.
- 3rd person singular forms: Ει is added to the stems when it comes to 3rd person singular regular and contract verbs. Ἐστι(ν) is different because it is a movable v word.
-Meaning of the -νυ movable: the letter -v placed at the end of any word so as to avoid having two vowels in a row between separate words.

2. Nouns: Gender, Case and Agreement
- 3 genders: Masculine, Feminine, Neuter
- Case: Cases are what the endings of Nouns are called.
- Stems and endings: Stems are what gives Nouns the meaning. Endings are what shows the function of a noun in the sentence. For nouns, their endings are called cases.
- Function of Nominative and Accusative: Nominative Case is used for the subject of the verb and the complement after the verb “is.” It uses the ending -ς. Accusative Case is used for the direct object of the verb. It uses the ending -ν.
-the meaning of the words don't depend on their order in the sentence but on what their endings are.
- Definite Articles and Adjectives must agree with the Nouns that they go with in gender, number and case.

Chapter 1B Grammar
1.Accents
- There are 3 kinds of accents: Acute, Grave and Circumflex.
- Acute accents are found only on the last 3 syllables of a word.
- Acute accents that are on the final syllable of a word are changed to Grave accents when said word is immediately followed by another word with no punctuation in between.

Chapter 2A Grammar
1. Verb Forms - Indicative Mood, 1st,2nd,3rd Persons Singular
- Definition of Mood: Moods indicate if an action is viewed as being real or ideal.
- Definition of Indicative Mood: The Indicative Mood is used for expressing statements about reality or fact.
- Function of verb endings: Verb Endings not only indicate number and person but also mood.
- Present Indicative verbs: There are three different Present Indicative Verbs: 1st Person, 2nd person, and 3rd Person.
- 1st Person ends in -ω, 2nd Person ends in -εις and 3rd Person ends in -ει. But these only apply to regular and contract verbs.
- Irregular verbs are different. For example, εσ-, which means be has the following. 1st person is εἰμί, an enclitic. 2nd person is εἶ, not an enclitic. 3rd person is ἐστί(ν), an enclitic.
- Subject pronouns aren’t used until you are talking emphatically.

2. The Imperative
- Definition of Imperative mood: The Imperative mood is used to express commands or orders to other people.
- Imperative of σπεύδω, φιλέω and εἰμί - 2nd personal singular.
For the imperative mood of regular and contract verbs, the ending - ε is added to the stems. Irregular verbs, on the other hand, are still different. An example is ἴσθι, which means be.
- Negative commands (how to make a command negative)
To make a negative command, a command that tells someone not to do something, you place μη before the stem that - ε would get added to or the irregular verb.

Chapter 2B
1.Prepositions.
- The following are prepositions that are added to the front of verbs to form compound verbs: εἰς- which means into, ἐκ- which means out of, ἐν- which means in and πρός- which means towards or to.

2. Articles, Adjectives, and Nouns; Singular, All Cases
- There are 5 cases: Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, Vocative. And the way they are written are further differentiated by number and gender.
a) Masculine gender cases
Masculine Nominative: ὁ καλὸς ἀγρός
Masculine Genitive: τοῦ καλοῦ ἀγροῦ
Masculine Dative: τῷ καλῷ αγρῷ
Masculine Accusative: τὸν καλὸν αγρὸν
Masculine Vocative: ὦ καλὲ αγρὲ
b) Neuter gender cases
Neuter Nominative: τὸ καλὸν δένδρον
Neuter Genitive: τοῦ καλοῦ δένδρου
Neuter Dative: τῷ καλῷ δένδρῳ
Neuter Accusative: τὸ καλὸν δένδρον
Neuter Vocative: ὧ καλὸν δένδρον
- Neuter nominative, accusative and vocative endings are the same.
- Function of each case:
a. nominative - used to denote the subject of the sentence or the complement of the verb “to be.”
b. genitive - used only after certain prepositions, like those that express motion from a place.
c. dative - used only after certain prepositions, like those that indicate the place where someone or something happens.
d. accusative - used to denote the direct object of a transitive verb and after certain prepositions, like those that indicate movement towards something or someone.
e. vocative - used when addressing a person. It is usually preceded by ὦ, which need not be translated.

2.Persistent Accent of Nouns and Adjectives
- The accents of nouns and adjectives remain as they are in the nominative case until they are forced to change because of one of several rules.
- An example of such a rule is that if nouns and adjectives are accented in the nominative with a an acute on the final syllable, the acute turns into a circumflex on the final syllable in the Genitive and Dative cases. Definite Articles also follow this rule.

Chapter 3A Grammar
1.Verb Forms: 3rd Person Plural Imperative, Indicative and Infinitives
- 3rd Person Plural Indicative Form: For regular and contract verbs, -ουσι(ν) is added to the stem. But it is still different when it comes to irregular verbs. An example is ἐσ-, which means be. Its 3rd person plural imperative form is εἰσί(ν).

2.Infinitive Mood: It is the form of the verb that we create in English by using thr word ‘to.’ In Attic Greek we the infinitive is formed by using an ending.
- Infinitive Form: For regular and contract verbs, the Infinitive Mood is formed by adding the ending -ειν to the stem. But the case is still different for irregular verbs. An example is ἐσ-, which means be. It’s Infinitive Mood is εἶναι, from adding -ναι to ἐσ.

Chapter 3B Grammer
1.Articles, Adjectives and Nouns; Singular and Plural, All Cases
a)Masculine Gender Cases
- Singular Nominative: ὁ καλὸς ἀγρός
- Singular Genitive: τοῦ καλοῦ ἀγροῦ
- Singular Dative: τῷ καλῷ ἀγρῷ
- Singular Accusative: τὸν καλὸν ἀγρόν
- Singular Vocative: ὦ καλὲ ἀγρέ
- Plural Nominative: οἱ καλοὶ ἀγροί
- Plural Genitive: τῶν καλῶν ἀγρῶν
- Plural Dative: τοῖς καλοῖς ἀγροῖς
- Plural Accusative: τοὺς καλοὺς ἀγρούς
- Plural Vocative: ὦ καλοὶ ἀγροί
b)Neutral Gender Cases
- Singular Nominative: τὸ καλὸν δένδρον
- Singular Genitive: τοῦ καλοῦ δένδρου
- Singular Dative: τῷ καλῷ δένδρῳ
- Singular Accusative: τὸ καλὸν δένδρον
- Singular Vocative: ὦ καλὸν δένδρον
- Plural Nominative: τὰ καλὰ δένδρα
- Plural Genitive: τῶν καλῶν δένδρων
- Plural Dative: τοῖς καλοῖς δένδροις
- Plural Accusative: τὰ καλὰ δένδρα
- Plural Vocative: ὦ καλὰ δένδρα
c)Notes:
- in the neuter singular the nominative, accusative and vocative all end in -ον, in the plural they all end in -α. The other neuter endings are the same as the masculine.
- singular and plural genitive, singular and plural dative of the definite article has circumflex accents.

2)Accent Shifting
- the acute accent can normally stand on the 3rd syllable from the end of the word only when the final syllable has a short vowel, like ἄνθρωπος.
- like mentioned before, the accent of nouns and adjectives are persistent, which means they stay the same as the nominative until forced to change because of a rule.
- One such rule is that when the final syllable of a word with its accent on the 3rd syllable from the end in the nominative, like ἄνθρωπος, becomes long, meaning a long vowel or a diphthong, the accent shifts one syllable towards the end of the word, like in what happens to the genitive singular, dative singular, genitive plural, dative plural and accusative plural of ἄνθρωπος. Take note, however, that the masculine nominative ending -οι, although a diphthong, is counted as short in determining the accent, so the nominative plural is ἄνθρωποι.
- If a word is accented on the next to last syllable and that syllable is long while the final syllable is short, then the accent is a circumflex, like οἶκος.
- If the final syllable becomes long, the accent becomes an acute, like οἴκου .

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Exercise 3y
Give the correct form of the article to complete the following phrases:

1. τοὺς ἀνθρώπους
2. οἱ δοῦλοι
3. ἐν τοῖς οἴκοις
4. ἐκ τῶν ἀγρῶν
5. πρὸς τὰ δένδρα
6. τῶν Ἀθηναίων
7. τὸ ἄροτρον
8. τὸ χρόνον
9. πόνοι
10. τοὺς δούλους

Aetos
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Well, I know what you've been doing for the past week! From the looks of it, you've taken your checklist and proceeded to supply all the information pertaining to each point, which is fine and will help you remember what you've learnt. I once had a flight student , whose native language was not English and he basically did what you've just done for his entire textbook and did it in English! Needless to say, he did very well on his exams. Last I knew, he was flying for Swiss Airlines. But enough of that. At some point, every few chapters or so, you'll want to go back over every thing you've done up to this point. For this I would suggest just listing the items that comprise each checklist (without the answers), so for example for Chapter 3B, your checklist could be condensed down to:

1. Articles, Adjectives, & Nouns
- masculine (ὁ καλὸς ἀγρός)
- neuter (τὸ καλὸν δένδρον)

2. Accent Shifting

Now speaking of accent shifting, this is where knowing a little terminology can save you a lot of typing!
the last syllable = ultima
next to last syllable= penult
third from last (or syllable before the penult) = antepenult (ante just means before)

Word building 3B looks good.

Exercise 3γ:
8. Check the gender of χρόνον
9. ὦ πόνοι is correct, but there is another article that can be used with this form. You're also going to find that often nouns don't take a definite article at all. When they don't, they have the same meaning in Greek as "a" or "an" has in English. I bring this up because you can see from the paradigms that some cases have the same ending, for example, the neuter nouns have the same endings in the nominative, accusative and vocative cases. This means that you're going to have to figure out how the noun is being used in the sentence without the help of a definite article; is it a subject? is it a direct object? This is just one of many reasons why I am so adamant on developing the ability to analyse a sentence.

Malo, you're putting in a magnificent effort and it will be rewarded.

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Aetos wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:35 pm 8. Check the gender of χρόνον
So its ὁ χρόνον? I see.

Exercise 3δ
Complete the ff. sentences by giving the correct endings to the verbs and nouns, and then translate.

1. οἱ δοῦλοι πονοῦσιν ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς .
The slaves are working in the fields.

2. οἱ ἄνθρωποι σπεύδουσι πρὸς τὸν οἶκ.
The men are hurrying towards the house.

3. ὅ τε Δικαιόπολις καὶ ὁ δοῦλος μένουσιν εν0 τ αγρῷ.
Both Dikaiopolis and the slave waited in the field.

4. λείπετε τὰ ἄροτρα, ὦ δοῦλοι, εν᾿ τῷ αγρ.
Leave the plows in the field, slaves.

5. αἴρετε τοὺς λίθους, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ εκφέρετε ἐκ τῶν ἀγρῶν.
Lift the stones, slaves, and carry them out of the fields.

6. οὐ δυνατόν ἐστι τοὺς λίθους αἴρειv καὶ ἐκφέρειv.
It is not possible to lift and to carry out the stones.
Last edited by malolosgreencat on Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Aetos
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

malolosgreencat wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:25 am So its ὁ χρόνον? I see.
Yes, it's masculine. So what case has ὁ for its article and what is the ending?

Before I correct this exercise, Malo, I would like you to do two things:
1. Look over these sentences very carefully and see if you can spot any mistakes and then correct them. Try to analyse the sentences to determine the proper form for each word.
2. Then look in the teacher's guide for the answers. They should be there; the exercise may have a different number. In my edition, it is labelled exercise 3e; so try looking for it with that number.

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Did I get it right now? I edited my answers earlier.

I can't believe what got me wrong was I forgot to write the plural imperative forms in my checklist, thus me forgetting plural imperatives are a thing and single imperative is all there is.

Aetos
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Much better! One last thing: check to make sure each word has the proper accent and breathing mark. Basically, every word that begins with a vowel or diphthong takes a breathing mark and every word has an accent mark, unless it's a enclitic or proclitic (which may or may not have an accent), A good habit to get into is going back over your sentence and doing a quick check for accents and breathing marks and for that matter, any obvious grammatical and spelling errors. I think I've already told you the story about writing a whole letter, then putting in all the markings afterwards!

When it comes to singular and plural forms, the only form of the verb that can't have a number is the infinitive. All the rest do. Not only is there an singular and plural number, there's also a dual number, which you'll encounter later on. Book 1 doesn't even cover it, so it's quite a ways down the road.

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Aetos wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:41 pm Much better! One last thing: check to make sure each word has the proper accent and breathing mark. Basically, every word that begins with a vowel or diphthong takes a breathing mark and every word has an accent mark, unless it's a enclitic or proclitic (which may or may not have an accent), A good habit to get into is going back over your sentence and doing a quick check for accents and breathing marks and for that matter, any obvious grammatical and spelling errors. I think I've already told you the story about writing a whole letter, then putting in all the markings afterwards!

When it comes to singular and plural forms, the only form of the verb that can't have a number is the infinitive. All the rest do. Not only is there an singular and plural number, there's also a dual number, which you'll encounter later on. Book 1 doesn't even cover it, so it's quite a ways down the road.
I finished checking the answers for the proper accents and breathing marks.

Aetos
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Good! Out of the 48 marks, you got 45! There are 3 left. Can you spot them? Don't spend a lot of time on this-I think you've got the idea now of how to check your work. Time to carry on to the next exercise! In my edition, this is exercise 3f. In yours, I suspect it's 3ε.
Note: if you want a shorter way of saying breathing and accent marks, they're known as diacritical marks.

malolosgreencat
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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Exercise 3ε
Translate the following pairs of sentences.

1. ὁ μὲν Δικαιόπολις ἐλαύνει τοὺς βοῦς, οἱ δὲ βόες οὐκέτι ἕκουσι τὸ ἄροτρον.
Dikaiopolis drives the oxen, but the oxen no longer drag the plow.

The master calls the slaves, but the slaves do not drive the oxen.
ὁ δεσπότης καλεῖ τοὺς δούλους ἀλλὰ τοὺς δούλους οὐκ ἐλαύνουσι τοὺς βοῦς.


2. μὴ καθίζετε ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ, ὦ παῖδες, ἀλλὰ ἔλθετε δεῦρο καὶ συλλαμβάνετε.
Don't sit in the house, children, but come here and help.

Don't stay in the field, boys, but walk to the house and sleep.
μὴ μένουσιν ἐν τῷ αγρῳ, ὦ παῖδες, ἀλλὰ πρόσβαίνει τὸν οἶκον καὶ καθεύδετε.


3. οἱ παῖδες ἰσχῦροί εἰσιν· λίθους γὰρ μεγάλους φερουσιν.
The children are strong; for they carry the big stones.

The slaves are lazy, for they are no longer working.
οἱ δουλοὶ ἀγρουσιν, πονουσιν γὰρ οὐκέτι.


4. λαμβάνετε τὰ ἄροτρα, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ σπεύδετε πρὸς τοὺς ὰγρούς.
Take the plows, slaves, and hurry towards the fields.

Loosen the plows, slaves, and leave the plows in the field.
λύοσετε τοὺς βοῦς, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ λείπετε τὰ ἄροτρα ἐν τὸν ἀγρόν.


5. μὴ ὀκνεῖτε, ὦ παῖδες. ἀνδρεῖοι ἔστε.
Don't shirk, children. Be brave.

Don't wait, boys. Don't be so lazy.
μὴ μένετε, ὦ παῖδες. μὴ ἀγρός.


So, I'm sorry I had only been able to make an answer now. It is because I want back to making some edits to my story...and I finally had a biopsy for my tongue to know what the hell is wrong with it.

Turns out...the results say Squamous Cell Carcinoma, well differentiated. A second ENT doctor, who we went to after the first one, said I had Stage 2 cancer.

I...I'm so afraid. I still want to do many things. I still want to write my story, and maybe continue learning Attic Greek but mostly writing...

...my God. My God, Lord Jesus Christ, I'm afraid. Why?

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by jeidsath »

I noticed "ἐν τὸν ἀγρόν", which has a problem with case. And μὴ ἀγρός has a problem with number, doesn't translate the "so" part of "so lazy", and I'd add a verb that means "be", myself.

I am sorry to hear about your cancer. My personal belief, and what I take comfort in, is that our struggles and spiritual victories against affliction are more momentous and have a more incorruptible result than other things we do that may seem more durable.

That said, I hope that you are able to continue with your Greek and writing.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Malo,
Let me just add my voice to Joel's kind words. You may have a struggle ahead of you, but you have an excellent chance of beating this and it appears your doctor has caught it in the early stages. The first and most important spiritual victory you can strive for is defeating despair. Do everything that's in your power to do in terms of treatment and living your life-that means keep pursuing your goals, keep writing your story and keep learning what you want to learn.

Before we go over the sentences, I have to ask: were you able to find the corresponding excercise in the Teacher's guide? It should be labelled 3f. It's been awhile, so you may have forgotten. Your Teacher's guide is keyed to the Revised Edition, which is the one before yours. Fortunately, my copy of Athenaze is the same edition as your Teacher's guide, so I can find the number for the correct exercise in your Teacher's guide. Have a look at the answers for exercise 3f in the Teacher's Guide. Once you've checked your work against that, we'll look at what's left. You also might want to quickly run through your checklists to refresh your memory on the material you've already covered.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Ok. So, papers were done, CoviD 19 test done. Operation is on Friday Philippine time.

...God, please I hope I don't become a statistic.

So are these the right answers?

1. ὁ μὲν Δικαιόπολις ἐλαύνει τοὺς βοῦς, οἱ δὲ βόες οὐκέτι ἕκουσι τὸ ἄροτρον.
Dikaiopolis drives the oxen, but the oxen no longer drag the plow.

The master calls the slaves, but the slaves do not drive the oxen.
ὁ μὴν δεσπότης καλεῖ τοὺς δουλους, οἱ δὲ δοῦλοι οὐκ ἐλαύνουσι τοὺς βοῦς.

2. μὴ καθίζετε ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ, ὦ παῖδες, ἀλλὰ ἔλθετε δεῦρο καὶ συλλαμβάνετε.
Don't sit in the house, boys, but come here and help.

Don't stay in the field, boys, but walk to the house and sleep.
μὴ μένετε ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς, ὦ παῖδες, ἀλλὰ βαδίζετε πρὸς τὸν οἶκον καὶ καθεύδετε.

3. οἱ παῖδες ἰσχῦροί εἰσιν· λίθους γὰρ μεγάλους φερουσιν.
The boys are strong; for they carry the big stones.

The slaves are lazy, for they are no longer working.
οἱ δουλοὶ ῥάθῦμοί εἰσιν· οὐκέτι γὰρ πονοῦσιν.

4. λαμβάνετε τὰ ἄροτρα, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ σπεύδετε πρὸς τοὺς ὰγρούς.
Take the plows, slaves, and hurry towards the fields.

Loosen the plows, slaves, and leave the plows in the field.
λύετε τοὺς βοῦς, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ λείπετε τὰ ἄροτρα ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ.

5. μὴ ὀκνεῖτε, ὦ παῖδες. ἀνδρεῖοι ἔστε.
Don't shirk, children. Be brave.

Don't wait, boys. Don't be so lazy.
μὴ μένετε, ὦ παῖδες. μὴ ἀγρός ἔστε.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Hi Malo,
Good luck with the procedure on Friday!

It looks like you found most of the mistakes, just a few minor ones to note:
1. ὁ μὴν δεσπότης καλεῖ τοὺς δουλους, οἱ δὲ δοῦλοι οὐκ ἐλαύνουσι τοὺς βοῦς.
μὴν (what word should this be), δουλους (how should this be accented?)

2. μὴ καθίζετε ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ, ὦ παῖδες, ἀλλὰ ἔλθετε δεῦρο καὶ συλλαμβάνετε.
When you copied this, I noticed you wrote ἔλθετε. If you check your book (Chapter 3a, Grammar 1.b), you'll see it's accented ἐλθέτε. It's one of only five verbs that have the imperative accented this way, i.e. not recessive

3. οἱ παῖδες ἰσχῦροί εἰσιν· λίθους γὰρ μεγάλους φερουσιν.
If there's no article (λίθους ... μεγάλους), how should we translate this?
οἱ δουλοὶ ῥάθῦμοί εἰσιν· οὐκέτι γὰρ πονοῦσιν.
δουλοι (accent).
reminder: don't use circumflex to indicate a long vowel.

4. Loosen the plows, slaves, and leave the plows in the field.
λύετε τοὺς βοῦς, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ λείπετε τὰ ἄροτρα ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ.
Loosen the plows-just a copying error, I know you meant to write oxen. You translated it correctly.

5. μὴ μένετε, ὦ παῖδες. μὴ ἀγρός ἔστε.
ἀγρός or ἀργός? Singular or plural? what case?(what noun does it agree with?)

All in all, not bad, Malo! Just remember to check and double check your work. When I'm reading (unless it's sci-fi or fantasy), I always read a section at least twice. You wouldn't believe how much I catch the second time round!

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by jeidsath »

Aetos wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:48 pm Good luck with the procedure on Friday!
Yes, good luck.
When you copied this, I noticed you wrote ἔλθετε. If you check your book (Chapter 3a, Grammar 1.b), you'll see it's accented ἐλθέτε. It's one of only five verbs that have the imperative accented this way, i.e. not recessive
The special accent is only for the singular. It's ἐλθέ, but still ἔλθετε. If the book has otherwise, it's wrong.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Sorry, Joel, but check Smyth 424b. I'm checking Dickey to see if this was perhaps one of the errors in Smyth.
EDIT: Well, what do you know! Dickey does list it as an error. Only the singular is oxytone.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

1.δούλους and μὲν

3. My boys are strong; for they are carrying.
The slaves are lazy, for they don't carry anything.

5. ἀργός. I don't know the plural. Supposed to affect the noun 'παῖδες'

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Sentence 3: I guess I needed to ask the question a little more clearly:
... λίθους γὰρ μεγάλους φερουσιν.
Which is a more appropriate translation- "for they carry the large stones" or "for they carry large stones"?

Sentence 5: ἀργός is correct. It declines just like καλός. You're right: ἀργός has to agree with παῖδες. What case and number is παῖδες?

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Aetos wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:18 am Sentence 3: I guess I needed to ask the question a little more clearly:
... λίθους γὰρ μεγάλους φερουσιν.
Which is a more appropriate translation- "for they carry the large stones" or "for they carry large stones"?

Sentence 5: ἀργός is correct. It declines just like καλός. You're right: ἀργός has to agree with παῖδες. What case and number is παῖδες?
Sentence 3...for they carry large stones.

Sentence 5...plural, nominative or vocative...vocative in this case.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

malolosgreencat wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:06 pm Sentence 5...plural, nominative or vocative...vocative in this case.
So if ἀργός declines like καλός, what is the vocative plural of ἀργός?

So now it's on to "ΟΙ ΒΟΕΣ" !

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by jeidsath »

It's still nominative (though it doesn't matter in the plural). The subject of the sentence still gets the nominative.

"Νέος γὰρ εἶ, ὦ φίλε παῖ."

νέος is nominative, φίλε is part of the address itself, and vocative, though they both refer to the same person.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Joel's right-the subject that the adjective ἀργός has to agree with is an implied "you" plural (subject of the verb ἔστε), so the case of the adjective will be nominative plural. As Joel indicates, in the plural the nominative and vocative forms have the same ending.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Aetos wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:31 pm
So if ἀργός declines like καλός, what is the vocative plural of ἀργός?

So now it's on to "ΟΙ ΒΟΕΣ" !
ἀργοί?

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Correct!

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Ok. So tommorow, me and Mama are going to stay at the hospital. And the operation's on Friday.

So...uhm...if I wasn't able to come online for ten days straight...well, contact my brother and ask how I am...just in case the worst happens...

https://www.facebook.com/raymond.lim.96 ... SEARCH_BOX

Say you're website friends helping me learn a foreign language.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Good luck tomorrow, my friend. I don't have a Facebook account, but hopefully Joel does and he can share the news with us. In the meantime, I'll pray for your recovery. Perhaps you can take Athenaze along. I always go to a doctor's appointment or hospital visit with lots of reading material!

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by bedwere »

malolosgreencat wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:21 am Ok. So tommorow, me and Mama are going to stay at the hospital. And the operation's on Friday.

So...uhm...if I wasn't able to come online for ten days straight...well, contact my brother and ask how I am...just in case the worst happens...

https://www.facebook.com/raymond.lim.96 ... SEARCH_BOX

Say you're website friends helping me learn a foreign language.
Ταχέως ἐκ τῆς νόσου ἀνένεγκον.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Operation is 7 A.M. Philippines time.

.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by jeidsath »

Here's hoping for a good result on the surgery and a quick recovery
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by seneca2008 »

I hope you make a swift recovery too. (I had only just noticed this thread had become active again)
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by mwh »

Amen. (I wasn't aware of your situation till now.)

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Lukas »

Hope you have a good procedure and recover quickly.
Λουκᾶς

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by malolosgreencat »

Alive. Operation finished. Estimate 1/3 of tongue removed?

Had panic attack when I woke up. Would have ripped out needles and whatever is on my neck in a panic because I thought I couldn't breathe if not for restraints I asked for. As in my arms and legs were tied up.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Aetos »

Malo,
I'm happy to hear that the operation went well! The restraints were probably a wise precaution. People can have different reactions coming out of anaesthesia and the last thing you want is to do is pull out your IV.
Thanks for letting us know! We'll all rest a little easier this weekend.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by seneca2008 »

Malo

What a truly frightening experience you have been through. I am relieved to hear from you that the operation is over. It's easy for me to say you have to keep calm but do try.

I hope you will be back on your feet soon.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by Lukas »

Some odd years ago after a surgery, My Dad told me that he thought he could not breathe for a while. That anaesthesia is something. Glad you are finished. It is now history.
Λουκᾶς

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Re: My journey through the exercises of Athenaze

Post by jeidsath »

1/3rd sounds pretty tough, but also like a good result. Good to hear that you're all right.
"Here stuck the great stupid boys, who for the life of them could never master the accidence..."

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