More help with long passages in colebourne

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DoctorBadger
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More help with long passages in colebourne

Post by DoctorBadger » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:50 pm

1. Theseus king of the Atheniens
Rex Atheniensium
not rex Athenarum
king of Athens

I believe this rule, using the genitive of the people, not of the place, applies elsewhere, eg exercitus Romanorum, not exercitus Romae.
has anyone more thoughts on this? exceptions, rules etc.

2. vir questus est apud Theseum
how is this different stylistically to using dative or perhaps accusative, seeing as queror is either transitive or intransitive.

3. English seems to prefer the singular to plural in phrases like
having done these things, or she admitted this
whereas Latin seems to be more precise and will often say
confisa est haec vera esse.
any thoughts?

4. author has: Aegeus elapsus est de rupo in quo sedebat
i have ubi sedebat.
are there any differences in style, register, etc, indeed correctness?

thanks in advance

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: help with long passages in colebourne

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:48 pm

Just in general, I don't have Colebourne, but I assume he doesn't give exercises without having first covered the syntax you are supposed to be using in your composition?

DoctorBadger wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:50 pm
1. Theseus king of the Atheniens
Rex Atheniensium
not rex Athenarum
king of Athens

I believe this rule, using the genitive of the people, not of the place, applies elsewhere, eg exercitus Romanorum, not exercitus Romae.
has anyone more thoughts on this? exceptions, rules etc.
I never really thought about this, and one of our grammar book experts can probably cite chapter and verse for you. I do know that exercitus Romae just sounds wrong.

2. vir questus est apud Theseum
how is this different stylistically to using dative or perhaps accusative, seeing as queror is either transitive or intransitive.
What is this supposed to say? If I saw it without your question, I would render "The man complained in Theseus' presence." If the original is "to Theseus" be aware of what that English can really mean in context.
3. English seems to prefer the singular to plural in phrases like
having done these things, or she admitted this
whereas Latin seems to be more precise and will often say
confisa est haec vera esse.
any thoughts?
That's right. One explanation is that Latin conceptualizes the various components that make up whatever it is, but English looks at the sum total of them. They amount to the same thing, or things... :)
4. author has: Aegeus elapsus est de rupo in quo sedebat
i have ubi sedebat.
are there any differences in style, register, etc, indeed correctness?

thanks in advance
What's the difference in English between "where" and "on which?" They "sound" different, essentially mean the same thing, but one would likely sound better in certain contexts that maybe only a native speaker might appreciate. But again, perhaps our local grammatici can supply more specific information.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

mwh
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Re: help with long passages in colebourne

Post by mwh » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:49 pm

1. Yes this is normal idiom, and more exact than English. Rome the city doesn’t possess an army; the Romans do. A city can be built, destroyed, etc., but only people can be ruled (taxed, led into war, etc.). A city is an urban environment, it doesn't have a king.
2. With apud, Theseus is the recipient of the complaint. Dative would be wrong, accusative would make Theseus the object of the complaint. (But de Theseo more likely for "he complained of Theseus." Acc. would mean "he lamented Theseus.")
3. More precise, as you say. Singular would refer to one particular thing.
4. in quo attaches the clause to rupo specifically. ubi doesn’t, though it’s not wrong.

DoctorBadger, please don't give different posts identical headings!

DoctorBadger
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Re: More help with long passages in colebourne

Post by DoctorBadger » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:41 pm

thanks for the really helpful reply.
duly noted about the titles

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