Unit 20 Part IV #6

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Lukas
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Unit 20 Part IV #6

Post by Lukas » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:53 am

Χαίρετε!

I am supposed to write in Greek, "This woman said that the soldiers had led the jurymen away to the shrine next to the walls."

I wrote, "αὔτη ἡ γυνὺ ἔφη τοὺς στρατιώτας τούς δικαστὰς εἰς τό πρὸς τοῖς τείχεσιν ιερὸν ἀπάγειν."

The answer book wrote, "αὔτη ἡ γυνὺ τοὺς στρατιώτας ἔφη τούς δικαστὰς εἰς τό πρὸς τοῖς τείχεσιν ιερὸν ἀπαγαγεῖν."

This leads to two questions:

1. The answer book placed the infinitive in the aorist. If the author used "led" instead of "had led," I would have done the same. Isn't "had led" an imperfect tense? If yes, I should use the present stem?

2. Just a question about word order. I placed ἔφη" before all of the indirect discourse. The author placed "τοὺς στρατιώγας," part of the indirect discourse, before ἔφη." Is it OK to place part of the indirect discourse before ἔφη"?
Last edited by Lukas on Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bedwere
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Re: Unit 20 Part IV #6

Post by bedwere » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:48 am

1) In English it's pluperfect. In Greek you must use the aorist because it indicates an event at a particular time. The present infinitive indicates that the soldier were leading / kept leading the jurymen etc.

2) Yes, it is.

BTW, στρατιώτας

Lukas
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Re: Unit 20 Part IV #6

Post by Lukas » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:59 am

ευχαριστῶ!

Sorry about the typos. I was really stuck on how to write "had led." I was also uncertain about the word order, even with the freedom of Greek. I was uncertain about placing any part of an indirect discourse before, "said."
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Hylander
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Re: Unit 20 Part IV #6

Post by Hylander » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:24 pm

Also note γυνή.

The word order of the answer book, by separating the subject from the predicate, makes the structure of the sentence clearer. Your word order, while not wrong, juxtaposes two accusative noun phrases, making it difficult to tell which is subject and which is object, or perhaps suggesting that the second noun phrase is appositive to the first.

The present ἀπάγειν would mean that the action of the verb was occurring contemporaneously with the speech verb ἔφη. The aorist makes it clear that ἀπαγαγεῖν had already occurred before she ἔφη.

The distinction between present and aorist infinitive is generally a distinction of aspect, i.e., the way the action is viewed -- an action viewed as an ongoing or continuing action (present infinitive) vs. an action viewed as a completed action without reference to duration (aorist infinitive).

In indirect discourse with a past tense verb of speaking, this means that the aorist infinitive generally indicates an action completed before the moment when the speech act occurred, while the present infinitive indicates an action ongoing while the speech act occurred.

Hopefuly, this helps and doesn't lead to more confusion.

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