Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

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seanjonesbw
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Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

Post by seanjonesbw » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:56 am

Welcome to the Odyssey Reading Group! Anyone is welcome to join in at any time, regardless of their Greek ability. If you’re itching to explore Homer’s epic tale of survival, adventure, love, lust, kinship, betrayal and spooky dead people, hop on in, you’ll be very welcome. People who have some Greek but have never tried reading Homer before are doubly welcome.

Please feel free to ask any question in this thread, no matter how basic you think it is, and we will try to help you with an answer.
More Information About the Group
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Check the introductory thread for a description of how the group works.

We’re working from Geoffrey Steadman’s Odyssey Books 6-8, a freely-available pdf with vocabulary and notes

Resources for deeper study are available in the group dropbox folder

We started at Book 6. Here are all the threads so far:

Book 6
Lines 1-23
24-47
48-70
71-92
93-118
119-140
141-161
162-185
186-210
211-238
239-261
262-294
295-331 [end]

Book 7
1-26
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seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

Post by seanjonesbw » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:11 am

27 τὸν δ ̓ αὖτε προσέειπε θεά, γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη· 28 “τοιγὰρ ἐγώ τοι, ξεῖνε πάτερ, δόμον, ὅν με κελεύεις, 29 δείξω, ἐπεί μοι πατρὸς ἀμύμονος ἐγγύθι ναίει. 30 ἀλλ ̓ ἴθι σιγῇ τοῖον, ἐγὼ δ ̓ ὁδὸν ἡγεμονεύσω, 31 μηδέ τιν ̓ ἀνθρώπων προτιόσσεο μηδ ̓ ἐρέεινε. 32 οὐ γὰρ ξείνους οἵδε μάλ ̓ ἀνθρώπους ἀνέχονται, 33 οὐδ ̓ ἀγαπαζόμενοι φιλέουσ ̓ ὅς κ ̓ ἄλλοθεν ἔλθῃ. 34 νηυσὶ θοῇσιν τοί γε πεποιθότες ὠκείῃσι 35 λαῖτμα μέγ ̓ ἐκπερόωσιν, ἐπεί σφισι δῶκ ̓ ἐνοσίχθων· 36 τῶν νέες ὠκεῖαι ὡς εἰ πτερὸν ἠὲ νόημα.” 37 ὣς ἄρα φωνήσασ ̓ ἡγήσατο Παλλὰς Ἀθήνη 38 καρπαλίμως· ὁ δ ̓ ἔπειτα μετ ̓ ἴχνια βαῖνε θεοῖο. 39 τὸν δ ̓ ἄρα Φαίηκες ναυσικλυτοὶ οὐκ ἐνόησαν 40 ἐρχόμενον κατὰ ἄστυ διὰ σφέας· οὐ γὰρ Ἀθήνη 41 εἴα ἐϋπλόκαμος, δεινὴ θεός, ἥ ῥά οἱ ἀχλὺν 42 θεσπεσίην κατέχευε φίλα φρονέουσ ̓ ἐνὶ θυμῷ. 43 θαύμαζεν δ ̓ Ὀδυσεὺς λιμένας καὶ νῆας ἐΐσας, 44 αὐτῶν θ ̓ ἡρώων ἀγορὰς καὶ τείχεα μακρὰ 45 ὑψηλά, σκολόπεσσιν ἀρηρότα, θαῦμα ἰδέσθαι. 46 ἀλλ ̓ ὅτε δὴ βασιλῆος ἀγακλυτὰ δώμαθ ̓ ἵκοντο, 47 τοῖσι δὲ μύθων ἦρχε θεά, γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη·
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seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

Post by seanjonesbw » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:32 am

seanjonesbw wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:11 am
34 νηυσὶ θοῇσιν τοί γε πεποιθότες ὠκείῃσι 35 λαῖτμα μέγ ̓ ἐκπερόωσιν, ἐπεί σφισι δῶκ ̓ ἐνοσίχθων· 36 τῶν νέες ὠκεῖαι ὡς εἰ πτερὸν ἠὲ νόημα.”
Line 36 is a very beautiful image - there's a tendency in English translations to render πτερὸν as bird by synecdoche rather than wing or feather which kills the magic of the image for me. But I would be interested to know if anyone thinks bird is the correct sense here for any reason.

νηυσὶ θοῇσιν is surely punning on Ναυσίθοος/Ναυσίθοον at the beginning of lines 56, 62 and 63 - or is it perhaps the other way round?
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seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

Post by seanjonesbw » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:18 pm

I've seen it written in quite a few places that the Phaeacians are 'excellent hosts' and that Odysseus gets a 'warm welcome' in Scheria. In contrast, the characterisation we get of the Phaeacians at lines 32-33 by Athena, Nausicaa's description of what would happen if she were seen with Odysseus (6.276ff), and the implication later on that Alcinous has to be saved from being a bad host by Echeneus all paint a picture of reluctant hosts who are initially hostile to strangers. Euryalus is still rude to Odysseus even after he's been accepted into the palace and feasted (8.159-164).

I find this jagged edge to the Phaeacians quite compelling, whether you explain it by their having lived ἑκὰς ἀνδρῶν ἀλφηστάων (6.8) since the previous generation or as a character trait or something else. It gives the story some jeopardy and spurs Odysseus into remembering his former self. I like that they seem rusty when it comes to entertaining strangers. I'm confused, though, by this tendency to portray them as uncomplicated 'good hosts' when their shortcomings are brought up on a few different occasions.
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Aetos
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

Post by Aetos » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:34 pm

seanjonesbw wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:32 am
Line 36 is a very beautiful image - there's a tendency in English translations to render πτερὸν as bird by synecdoche rather than wing or feather which kills the magic of the image for me. But I would be interested to know if anyone thinks bird is the correct sense here for any reason.
Sean, you'll be happy to know that Stanford translates the line thus: their ships "swift as a wing or a thought"!

seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 27-47

Post by seanjonesbw » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:15 pm

Aetos wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:34 pm
Sean, you'll be happy to know that Stanford translates the line thus: their ships "swift as a wing or a thought"!
What is lost by it? Nothing. And what is gained? Everything!
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