What is "Desiderat." an abbreviation for?

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ἑκηβόλος
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What is "Desiderat." an abbreviation for?

Post by ἑκηβόλος » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:08 am

This raises a few questions for me:
● Is "Desiderat." an abbreviation for the Latin "desideratum", an Anglicised "desiderate" or something else?
● At what period of the language, and in which social registers or genres was it a productive morphological element?
● Are these in fact two distinct features that have come to be classified together, but are actually better considered separately? In that case, is it that the -σείω as an unmarked element, and the -σιάω / -τιάω possessing some social tension? Alternatively, are they different morphological elements that developed at different periods of the language?
● Is Aristophanes playing on this element of the language for comic effect? Something like, "one is greatly desirous of taking a piss" for contrastive effect, or is he using an informal / "gutter" variety of the language for its "giggle" value?

The question arises while reading:
Longus 3.20.1 wrote:τῆς μὲν πρότερον ὁρμῆς ἀπήλλακτο,
in which, Perseus parses ἀπήλλακτο as:
ἀπήλλακτο verb 3rd sg plup ind mp attic epic doric ionic aeolic redupl of ἀπαλλαξείω
but I don't see the logic in parsing it as a form of ἀπαλλαξείω rather than a form of ἀπαλλάσσομαι. Even though that parsing was the basis of this question, I prefer to read it as the pluperfect of ἀπαλλάσσομαι.


For reference, simply by searching by endings, I can find the following examples of these desiderat. forms of verbs in LSJ, but I suspect that there are more: DesideratVerbs.pdf
Satyrs with glass beards should not throw parties.

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Re: What is "Desiderat." an abbreviation for?

Post by opoudjis » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:50 am

The desiderative was probably not productive even in Homeric Greek. There's only a few instances, famously including Aristophanes' χεσείω. The Indo-European -sy- desiderative suffix is in fact cognate to the future -s- in Greek, just as "I will" is a desiderative in English that became a future marker.

https://github.com/PerseusDL/morpheus/b ... bs.simp.ml shows you Perseus' native encoding of ἀλλάσσω, and it does not explain what you're seeing:

Code: Select all

:le:a)lla/ssw
:de:a)lla ss
;pr,-ss
;pr,-tt
;fu mid
;ao mid
;ap
@ fut
;pp 3rd sg plup ind pass
;pf
;pp ionic no_redupl
;ap,-g,aor2_pass
@ fut
:vs:a)llacei w_stem desiderative
That means that ἀλλαξει- is a desiderative present uncontracted stem. The desiderative is not regularly formed from verb roots (:de:ἀλλα-σσ). ἀπ-ήλλακτο is explicitly specified as the regular pluperfect of ἀλλα-σσ-: ";pp 3rd sg plup ind pass". (One of the more infuriating things of Morpheus lexical database: unnecessarily restricting its verb stems to particular inflections.) But there's no reason the desiderative classification should have moved up from the final present stem to the regular pluperfect.

Whatever Perseus is doing to attach the desiderative to the pluperfect, it's a bug, and not in their verb tables. I know that when I got access to Morpheus in 2005, for use in the TLG, the verb stem tables were not generating completely, so there were a lot of verb forms not being recognised at all. But that does not explain this behaviour.

No, the TLG version of Morpheus would not be attaching a desiderative there, given that it builds on those verb tables (and knows how to process them correctly, because that's what I spent a big chunk of 2005 doing). But as I've said before, I lost access to the TLG version of Morpheus two years ago.

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